Author Thread: When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 11 May, 2011 11:39 AM

A member of the ICG contacted me the other day, very upset over an audio tape that was circulating from a leader of another church in which he slanders and condemns Garner Ted Armstrong. Is this the true Christian thing to do? What would be the motive for anyone doing such a thing? Would Jesus do this? Did Jesus leave us an example of this situation that demonstrates what He did?



Let us begin by looking at the various scenarios and stating the spiritual conclusion of each. In each scenario Church A will be the one badmouthing Church B.



Scenario One: Church A and Church B are both True Churches of God



This scenario is absurd on its face [actually they all are absurd]. Both of these churches belong to God. They are both headed by Jesus Christ and both are filled with people God called after calling them to repentance, baptism and the laying on of hands. Condemning church B here would be condemning Jesus Christ and the Work of God.



Scenario Two: Church A is a True Church of God and Church B is not



Why would a true church wish to engage in this type of slander? There is no biblical instruction or mandate to badmouth false churches except in principle. There is no justification here to name names or slander individuals. Any true church or true minister can condemn a false doctrine or belief but they have absolutely no justification to make it personal or to name specific individuals or church organizations. After all, Christ died for EVERYONE in the World. The Plan of God is to bring all individuals to Salvation. Every human, therefore is God's property. Do you want to have your condemnation of specific individuals brought before the throne of God?



Scenario Three: Church A is Not a True Church of God and Church B is



This scenario is prophesied. The true church will experience hate, condemnation, slander, bitterness and even murder as we enter into the end times. I would personally hold as suspect any church bringing slander and condemnation against another church. A true church of God has no justification or biblical mandate to do so. Ergo, they, in their condemnation, condemn themselves as being a false church.



Scenario Four: Neither Church A nor Church B are True Churches of God



This scenario is rather moot. Even so, even a false church, with a nominal belief in Christian principles could not find justification for attacking individuals and other churches. Even the archangel, Michael did not bring accusation against Satan. Notice...



�Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.� Jude 9



Clearly there is no human [despite our distaste for the person] more evil than Satan. Just as clear, there is no human who can compare themselves to the archangel, Michael. Therefore, if Michael is not bringing accusation and slander against Satan, we humans have no justification to attack or slander others.



Example of Jesus



Jesus left us a prime example of this situation when, one day, the disciples came running to Him about "another church". Notice...



And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. Mark 9:38-40



And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. Luke 9:49-50



Jesus did not condemn these others. He did not declare them in any way false. He did not instruct the disciples to have these others join themselves to them. He simply told them to leave them alone. Clearly this happened for our benefit. The Word of God gives us no justification to badmouth individuals or churches. What does the Word of God say about slander?



SLANDER



Comes from an evil heart:

Luke 6:45~ �A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.�



Often arises from hatred:

Ps 109:3~ �They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.�



Evil people addicted to:

Ps 50:20~ �Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.�



Hypocrites habitually slander others:

Prov 11:9~ �An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.�



Characteristic of the Devil:

Rev 12:10~ �And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.�



Those who indulge in are FOOLS:

Prov 10:18~ �He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.�

Should not be listened to:

1 Sam 24:9~ �And David said to Saul, Wherefore hearest thou men's words, saying, Behold, David seeketh thy hurt?�





Wives of God's servants (including ministers) should avoid:

1 Tim 3:11~ �Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.�



Church members should keep their tongues from slander:

Ps 34:13 ~ �Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.�



1 Peter 3:10~ �For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile�



Should not be listened to:

1 Sam 24:9~ �And David said to Saul, Wherefore hearest thou men's words, saying, Behold, David seeketh thy hurt?�



What Slander Does



It separates friends:

Prov 16:28~ �A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.�



Prov 17:9~ �He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.�



Slander creates deadly wounds:

Prov 18:8~ �The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.�



It creates strife:

Prov 26:20~ �Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.�



Slander and badmouthing causes discord among the brethren:

Prov 6:19~ �A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.�



It leads to murder:

Ezek 22:9~ �In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness.�



The person who made the tape condemning another human is guilty of committing spiritual lewdness. This person is guilty of spreading discord, creating strife and separating friends. This person is a biblical fool.



Prov 6:16~ �These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: Verse 19: A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.�



God hates these things and will not tolerate someone that does these things without repentance. It matters not to me that the slanderer is sincere or that the target of his or her slander is an unrepentant sinner of some kind. One cannot slander before God without having to face judgment. To slander another is to be spiritually discerned. It assumes the other person is unrepentant. It denies the power of God in the life of the person being slandered. The slanderer is without love, compassion and forgiveness. His hate, bitterness and slander will keep him from the Kingdom of God.



Do not listen to slander of any kind.



Article Sourced From ~ Judes �The Dusty Archives�



xo

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 12 May, 2011 02:33 PM

No, sorry Bahira, this is not about anyone in particular, the discussion is about points made in the sermon that Jude posted.

ella

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 12 May, 2011 04:26 PM

Good grief, you miss the point! When one accuses another of slander when the other is pointing out false doctrine then the one accusing is the one slandering!!!

By your definition 25% of the Bible could be considered slander!

I am surrounded by bleeding heart women willing to compromise truth for peace.

*sigh*

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 12 May, 2011 05:16 PM

Shared ~ I am surrounded by bleeding heart women willing to compromise truth for peace.



*** PLease...Enough with the Sarcastic & Negative Put Downs Directed at Women...xo

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 12 May, 2011 05:35 PM

Thank you Jude for the perfect example of slander I was addressing!

:ROFL:

Btw, Remember this message you sent me? : GodsJude May 4, 2011 To: twosparrows Subject: P.S. Message: Chuck, I need to ask something of ya...next time you have Any issue with me...please be respectful and apply Mat 18:15...Privately Please...thanxs...

:rolleyes:

Jude, I see exactly your "method of operation"

Hopefully someday you will be able to discuss facts without calling it "slander" or slandering others.

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 12 May, 2011 08:32 PM

Interesting

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 13 May, 2011 04:09 AM

Hi,



I just gave an illustration to the words of Jude:



So the Blame Game continues�In all my years of life I�ve learned that out of those 3 situations and 3 truths their can Only be One that is Right and Truthful�and that is God, Jesus our Lord and Savior and the Holy Spirit and what He says about it in His word�In my honest opinion�If these people spoken of within this article were living by the Lord�s Principles set fourth for our benefit�none of this within the article would have happened�such is life...to live and learn...from those mistakes that others have made...





I gave you example/advice how to act to correct mistakes in behavior of christians.



Blessings.



Bahira

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 13 May, 2011 09:23 AM

Bahira, Now I see, thank for explaining...I had thought otherwise, and so had others... good example!:glow:

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 13 May, 2011 09:29 AM

In case I missed the definition in the sermon, This is definition of the word and act of Slander... Slander is a malicious spoken or written word designed with the intent to hurt or defame a person, which the Bible frequently warns against.

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When Church "A" Badmouths Church "B"
Posted : 13 May, 2011 02:53 PM

ET~ You are correct...this post is not about a specific person, it is about slander & what it does�nothing more nothing less�



Bahira ~ The examples you've given on the subject matter is excellent...thank you...



2Spar ~ Hummm�I asked you Please to stop the sarcastic & negative remarks towards Women in open forum as they did not pertain to the topic and there is nothing wrong in my asking that of you.



Since you�ve brought this to a whole new level and believe if its started in open it should be addressed in open and If it will make you feel any better you may post All the private correspondence so the captive audience may know the whole story...I've got nothing to hide...besides...This is not about me...This is about unresolved issues you have with someone else�maybe more than one�and that is the Truth whether you want to admit or accept it is on you...it aint my baby and I�m not rocking it�xo

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