It has been my experience that the answer is no. We all know and understand that HaShem is order, and that all things that truly show His Light and Love are as well. I ask that if you can't follow the simple request placed before you, please don't post on this thread.
Any debate on the Laws of HaShem, goes off the deep end, with passage after passage being posted. In just one post we may find as many as 15 if not more. This is an unproductive way to handle this, or any topic. As it can leave any one wishing to reply, with little option, Leave a post that is pages long, or leave a vague post filled with even more passages and little substance. This is what leads to endless debate with no answers, as well talking in circles.
For this reason, it is always best to look at ONLY ONE PASSAGE at a time. Now once that passage is called up, Both sides must look at it from both sides. i.e. Be ready and willing to argue the points you don't follow.
If the only thing we do is push one side of a topic, we fail to really look at the other side, and in most cases, fail to even hear the other side. So here is my propose, it is open to every one that truly wishes to open their hearts and minds to TRUTH. Not my truth, not your truth, and not your churches truth. Rather BIBLICAL TRUTH.
As almost all study of OT vs NT is centered around the Law of HaShem, (Know here after as TORAH) the first thing that must be found is, "How valid is Torah today?" Not an easy answer for many.
So here we go.
When it comes to Torah, the one passage that comes up more than other is Mat. 5:17. So lets look closely at this passage.
(NLT) Mat 5:17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
(KJ same passage) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
One must always take note of the passage opening. Here we are told not to think that something is Yeshua's reason for coming. From that we are safe to say that anything that follows, (until a change of topic) is what we shouldn't see as coming topass. After all He just THINK NOT, or in my words, (Don't put words in my mouth, or forget the important words I use.)
So let's do a full brake down of this passage. Looking at from both sides.
First we have THINK NOT, or Don't misunderstand. Both give the same thought behind the words. Just tell us not to entertain the idea that Yeshua came to do any of the following. So what is it he didn't come to do?
(KJ ) I am come to destroy the laws or the prophets:
(NLT) I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets.
If we read this passage for what it tells us, rather than what we wish it to say, we find that the Torah, and the Prophets are placed together. From this one should conclude that they work together, and we can not remove one from this passage with any hope of keeping the whole context of the passage.
Also, if we remove any part of this, then apply the new contextual meaning to the full passage, as well as any that may follow, do we not teach a lie, based on what we hope is true? SO any teaching on this passage must hold true to both Torah and prophets. With this understanding, one must walk carefully. If we say Yeshua removed the Law, nailed it to the cross, and so on, We also say that He has removed the prophecies that have not been fulfilled. Like His second coming, Judgment of all man kind, and many others.
(KJ) I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NLT) No, I came to accomplish their purpose
Now the most common word to be pushed by them that stand in opposition to Torah is the word FULFILL. So lets take a look at that word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill Has this to say.
a : to put into effect : execute He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
b : to meet the requirements of (a business order) Their order for more TVs was promptly fulfilled.
c : to measure up to : satisfy She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.
d : to bring to an end she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house— Willa Cather
2a : to develop the full potentialities of He has a lot of talent, but he hasn't really fulfilled his potential.
b : to convert into reality a sense of the failure of life to fulfill its ultimate expectations— Leslie Rees
3 archaic : to make full : fill her subtle, warm, and golden breath … fulfills him with beatitude— Alfred Tennyson
Now in this we find both sides, we find that it can mean to being to an end, yet we must ask, has it all been brought to an end? Are we wrong to say Yeshua will be coming back? After all He has brought to an end the Prophets, then that would also mean all prophecy has been fulfilled, or removed as they no longer hold meaning. i.e. there is no need for them.
Yet if we now look at this from a more contextual view, we know He must return for the WORD to hold truth. After all if any part of what the WORD tells us is not true, then we place our salvation in the hands of sin. Just saying.
We also know from the fact that Yeshua must come again, we must understand that He is still working to FULFILL scripture.
On the flip side.
At best I can here, so I leave something our please let me know.
This passage is clear that Jesus FULFILLED the Law, nailed it the cross, and removed it. He know that man kind can not live up to it's standards, and that to be held to that standard would leave us all devoid of hope. The passage is clear in that it tells us Jesus removed law. As is clear in your own use of Webster.
Picking up where we left off. Israel has never returned in the way they are today. Not just plains trains and automobiles, rather to their own lands.
Isa 43:5 "Do not be afraid, for I am with you.
I will gather you and your children from east and west.
Isa 43:6 I will say to the north and south,
'Bring my sons and daughters back to Israel
from the distant corners of the earth.
If we look at the world today, we can see this coming to pass.
Last thing, I will hold off for at lest 2 days to see what replies, or question come up.
Zep 3:9 "Then I will purify the speech of all people,
so that everyone can worship the LORD together.
Zep 3:10 My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.
Zep 3:17 For the LORD your God is living among you.
He is a mighty savior. He will take delight in you with gladness. With his love, he will calm all your fears. He will rejoice over you with joyful songs."
Zep 3:20 On that day I will gather you together and bring you home again. I will give you a good name, a name of distinction, among all the nations of the earth, as I restore your fortunes before their very eyes. I, the LORD, have spoken!
Again I strongly encourage you to read the full chapter of any thing I post.
Here as we can see HaShem has given His word that he will one day live among His people. Some will say this was done at the cross, or shortly after. He lives in all of us, and that fulfilled this prophecy.
Well ok then nothing more to say. Hold on, if it was truly fulfilled at the cross, where is the Temple? Why are there no sacrifices today? Why is it that even today, the Hebrew people stand divided?
I so look forward to hearing from you all. That is if more than one person is reading this.
LOL John, I love your last portion of your comments. One prior to those stood out however..
Your quote:
Zep 3:9 "Then I will purify the speech of all people,
so that everyone can worship the LORD together.
End quote
3. In Isaiah 6, when the prophet first comes face to face with the glory of God , his immediate response is “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a
man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the
King, the LORD Almighty. (Isaiah 6:6)
4. He clearly was wishing that he had “pure lips”. Such should be our goal.
Well ok then nothing more to say. Hold on, if it was truly fulfilled at the cross, where is the Temple? Why are there no sacrifices today? Why is it that even today, the Hebrew people stand divided?
End quote
I am going to save that for the end as I don't want to distract from the lessons about the FEASTS.
Genuinely pure lips are critical to some very essential and desirable things. We can gain a new appreciation of what blessings are ours if we have purified lips.
To have our lips purified …
Enables Us To Genuinely Call On The Name Of The Lord. Zephaniah 3:9, “Then will I purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the LORD and serve him shoulder to shoulder.”
It shows honesty, obedience, humbleness , harmony, an open heart, meekness, truth and having the right spirit.
Truth however is not a license to tear someone apart as pure lips speaks of expressing beneficial things.
""""""""""I am going to save that for the end as I don't want to distract from the lessons about the FEASTS""""""""""""
The temple is a part of the feast, It is the focal point of this feast, so anything about it is not off bass, it helps to see the fulfillment, and the understand where we stand by HaShem's time peace. For any that are lost by that last comment, Israel is HaShem's time peace. The prophecy, Law, and history of Israel, can be used to see where we are in time. At lest when it comes to HaShem's time.
