It has been my experience that the answer is no. We all know and understand that HaShem is order, and that all things that truly show His Light and Love are as well. I ask that if you can't follow the simple request placed before you, please don't post on this thread.
Any debate on the Laws of HaShem, goes off the deep end, with passage after passage being posted. In just one post we may find as many as 15 if not more. This is an unproductive way to handle this, or any topic. As it can leave any one wishing to reply, with little option, Leave a post that is pages long, or leave a vague post filled with even more passages and little substance. This is what leads to endless debate with no answers, as well talking in circles.
For this reason, it is always best to look at ONLY ONE PASSAGE at a time. Now once that passage is called up, Both sides must look at it from both sides. i.e. Be ready and willing to argue the points you don't follow.
If the only thing we do is push one side of a topic, we fail to really look at the other side, and in most cases, fail to even hear the other side. So here is my propose, it is open to every one that truly wishes to open their hearts and minds to TRUTH. Not my truth, not your truth, and not your churches truth. Rather BIBLICAL TRUTH.
As almost all study of OT vs NT is centered around the Law of HaShem, (Know here after as TORAH) the first thing that must be found is, "How valid is Torah today?" Not an easy answer for many.
So here we go.
When it comes to Torah, the one passage that comes up more than other is Mat. 5:17. So lets look closely at this passage.
(NLT) Mat 5:17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
(KJ same passage) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
One must always take note of the passage opening. Here we are told not to think that something is Yeshua's reason for coming. From that we are safe to say that anything that follows, (until a change of topic) is what we shouldn't see as coming topass. After all He just THINK NOT, or in my words, (Don't put words in my mouth, or forget the important words I use.)
So let's do a full brake down of this passage. Looking at from both sides.
First we have THINK NOT, or Don't misunderstand. Both give the same thought behind the words. Just tell us not to entertain the idea that Yeshua came to do any of the following. So what is it he didn't come to do?
(KJ ) I am come to destroy the laws or the prophets:
(NLT) I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets.
If we read this passage for what it tells us, rather than what we wish it to say, we find that the Torah, and the Prophets are placed together. From this one should conclude that they work together, and we can not remove one from this passage with any hope of keeping the whole context of the passage.
Also, if we remove any part of this, then apply the new contextual meaning to the full passage, as well as any that may follow, do we not teach a lie, based on what we hope is true? SO any teaching on this passage must hold true to both Torah and prophets. With this understanding, one must walk carefully. If we say Yeshua removed the Law, nailed it to the cross, and so on, We also say that He has removed the prophecies that have not been fulfilled. Like His second coming, Judgment of all man kind, and many others.
(KJ) I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NLT) No, I came to accomplish their purpose
Now the most common word to be pushed by them that stand in opposition to Torah is the word FULFILL. So lets take a look at that word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill Has this to say.
a : to put into effect : execute He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
b : to meet the requirements of (a business order) Their order for more TVs was promptly fulfilled.
c : to measure up to : satisfy She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.
d : to bring to an end she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house— Willa Cather
2a : to develop the full potentialities of He has a lot of talent, but he hasn't really fulfilled his potential.
b : to convert into reality a sense of the failure of life to fulfill its ultimate expectations— Leslie Rees
3 archaic : to make full : fill her subtle, warm, and golden breath … fulfills him with beatitude— Alfred Tennyson
Now in this we find both sides, we find that it can mean to being to an end, yet we must ask, has it all been brought to an end? Are we wrong to say Yeshua will be coming back? After all He has brought to an end the Prophets, then that would also mean all prophecy has been fulfilled, or removed as they no longer hold meaning. i.e. there is no need for them.
Yet if we now look at this from a more contextual view, we know He must return for the WORD to hold truth. After all if any part of what the WORD tells us is not true, then we place our salvation in the hands of sin. Just saying.
We also know from the fact that Yeshua must come again, we must understand that He is still working to FULFILL scripture.
On the flip side.
At best I can here, so I leave something our please let me know.
This passage is clear that Jesus FULFILLED the Law, nailed it the cross, and removed it. He know that man kind can not live up to it's standards, and that to be held to that standard would leave us all devoid of hope. The passage is clear in that it tells us Jesus removed law. As is clear in your own use of Webster.
Once again you are way out in left field, yet I am going to address at lest some of your post. Any that isn't addressed will come up later. As it really isn't a part of the feast, and falls nicely into things to come.
You said,
"""""""Yes, the miracles testified to the authenticity of the messengers and to the evidence that HaShem is at work and served to advance the Gospel and establish the early church. """""""""
The first century church as most people know, and has been shown by both Biblical, and archeological evidence, followed the Torah, as best they could. The feast were a big part of their lives, giving both meaning, and witness to both the fulfillment of, and trustworthiness of their spiritual intent.
Philippians 4:9 Likewise, keep practicing these things: what you have learned, received, heard, and seen in me. Then the God of peace will be with you.
So Paul taught the gentiles, as Lydia was not Jewish, to keep the feasts?
Some things I have noticed:
1) Paul always kept the Sabbath Acts 17:2,Acts 18:4
2) Paul kept the feasts Acts 20:6, Acts 20:16
3) Paul instructed them to keep the feasts 1 Corinthians 5:7-8
4) Paul believed in all of the Torah Acts 24:14
5) Paul stated that we establish the Torah Romans 3:31
6) Paul taught from the Torah Acts 28:23
7) Paul obeyed the Torah Acts 21:24,Romans 7:25
8) Paul took delight in the Torah Romans 7:22
9) Paul told the 1st century Christians to imitate him 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1
There were a group of people who made up the Church in the first century when all were being grafted in . Now we are all one in Christ Y'shua as anyone who is converted today is added to the kingdom .
1) The Jews: The observant Jews who reject the Greek culture and language.
2) The Hellenists: The Jews who adopted the Greek culture and language.
3) The Nations: The Jews from the ten lost tribes.
4) The Strangers: Non-Jews who join themselves with the Jews.
When Israel came out of Egypt, it was not just Israelites who came out, but a multitude of others. And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians. And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children. And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle. (Exodus 12:36-38, KJV)
The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. Many other people went up with them. (Exodus 12:37,38)
These foreigners were to be treated the same as the Israelites.
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 19:34)
"You are to have the same laws (mishpat) for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God." (Leviticus 24:22)
Even Paul in the New Testament understood this and recognized that anyone could join Israel, just as they did in ancient times.
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world. (Ephesians 2:12, KJV)
As the topic of your last post will show up later, I am going to move on. I am not sure how to ask that we stay on topic in a way that sinks in, so I will simply ask that we stay on topic once again.
As we move on we come to the feast of trumpets. Some see this as the Jewish New Year, even if it does fall in the middle of the year. It is however the mark of the second 1/2 of the year. Past that we can find many understandings of this feast. Of them what I call my top 3 are, The Shofar is a call to repent, We get the call to repent on the first day, to give us time to reflect on the past year. Just for fun we will call this a call to do cleaning. After all, we have that closet we hide the bodies in right? In a years time, I can put a lot of bodies in mine. HaShem knowing just how silly we people can be, gives us 9 days to clean all that out of the way.
The flip side.
Trumpets is a sabbath. that is used to reset the calendar. It is only on this day that all the heavenly bodies line up just so. As no calendar is perfect, they all need a reset. Leap year if you will. This is why we no longer need this feast, and Jesus nailed it to the cross for us.
Please keep in mind this not a study of semantics, or theology. It is about the feast of trumpets. I will do my best to cover both sides closely. Though they can become 1000 pages books in no time, lets limit it to say 2 post for both sides if we can.
Now if we look at this, we think the best way to clean is bottom up right? Not even. Top down is always the best and most effective way. When you want to clean a full closet out, and make room or what ever, do you pull the box from the middle, bottom, or top first.
The same takes place in ones mind. The last thing we did is always easier to recall than what we did a year ago. So as we remove the bodies, the last ones always come out first.After 9 days of looking that close at ones own life, they see things that need to change, and others that need to improve.
Not a bad way to enter into the next year.
So why today? HaShem made it clear in His Word that this is,
Lev 23:2 “Give the following instructions to the people of Israel. These are the LORD’s appointed festivals, which you are to proclaim as official days for holy assembly.
We also keep it to remind us of The Second Coming. It is thought that this is the day the last trumpet will sound.
1Co 15:52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
(((Note, there will be more on this passage later.)))
We know it is the last trumpet when we look at,
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices shouting in heaven: “The world has now become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.”
A read of this chapter will make clear that it leads up to a judgement. Leading us to the last 2 feast. After all, in just 9 days we will held to account for our lives, the things we did we shouldn't have; as well as things we didn't, we should have.
Now this side of the coin likes to run wild with it. So I remind you, this is about the FEAST, and NOT a rapture.
Please forgive me if it looks as though I am mixing 3 or 4 teachings into one. That is what I will do, just as did with cleaning day.
When one looks at
1Co 15:52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
We have to keep in mind it has nothing to do with feast. It is the last trumpet that will be heard on earth. On that day Jesus will take us home, and then we will come back down to rain with Him until the last trumpet sounds.
((Truth is, that is the exact wording from one person.))
We can find that the last trumpet in
Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices shouting in heaven: “The world has now become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.”
As you will note this one doesn't say anything about the dead. So it has to come after the first last trumpet. Making this the last last trumpet. i.e. the last one that will heard in heaven.
Then from there it will go on and on about the rapture, and leave the true topic in the road, having been run over 8 or 9 times, with the circles they run in.
As we move onto the next to the last feast, Some will see a part of the prophetic side of it you never seen, or even know was there. Though it is always true that any teaching, be it Billy Graham, or Rashi can be wrong, they both can also help to clear the sleep from our eyes.
This is also the point where this opens to more than just the feast. As we should all know Yom-Kip-pur is to bring the sins of Israel as a nation to HaShem seeking forgiveness. I am sure many of you have heard about the Azazel, or scape-goat. I hope you all know about the casting of lots to see what goats is Azazel. If not this will be fun for you.
One last thing, as this feast is so full of in-sight, prophecy, and salvation, it will take a bit longer than the rest.
It just hit me, I do pray that you are reading the full chapter that passages are coming from, it does help to make sure the context is held from start to finish.
Lev 16:8 He is to cast sacred lots to determine which goat will be reserved as an offering to the LORD and which will carry the sins of the people to the wilderness of Azazel.
Lev 16:9 Aaron will then present as a sin offering the goat chosen by lot for the LORD.
Lev 16:10 The other goat, the scapegoat chosen by lot to be sent away, will be kept alive, standing before the LORD. When it is sent away to Azazel in the wilderness, the people will be purified and made right with the LORD.
What we are now looking at is one feast, with 2 distinct sacrifices. One done in the temple, the other is lead away. We will open by looking at the first goat.
Lev 16:15 “Then Aaron must slaughter the first goat as a sin offering for the people and carry its blood behind the inner curtain. There he will sprinkle the goat’s blood over the atonement cover and in front of it, just as he did with the bull’s blood.
As we know, or should, Yeshua had to fulfill the feast in every detail. For this His Blood had to be sprinkled on the Mercy seat as well. This is a good place to stop, as I have some work to get done.
