The Bible, the justice system and common sense dictates a person cannot testify on their own behalf. Therefore the Bible cannot testify on its own behalf.------------------------------ Since the New Testament did not exist at the time of its own writing, it is impossible for anything in the New Testament to testify about the New Testament. ----------------------------------- The Bible isn't a Book, but a collection of books by different authors. Therefore authors may testify for another book as long as they weren't the author of that book------------------- Where legitimate testimony exists, what is being testified to? For example Psalm 119 may testify about Torah; "the word is perfect" but that does not equate to inerrant, but rather, perfect for the job it is intended for.----------------------------
The bottom line is the Bible is a extremely valuable written record by and about the relationship with God.our physical and spiritual ancestors had. The Bible is a God inspired tool designed to bring us into relationship with the "Living Word" rather than bring us into relationship with a Paper Pope.
David writes; "Anyone who opposes Paul is logically opposed to Moses and Jesus."
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Thank you for the fine example of typical modern Christian Pharisaism. Who gives you the Authority to write new doctrine?
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David writes; "Paul nowhere contradicts either Jesus or Moses or any other part of God’s entire word."
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The question at hand is "Authority", not contradictions. Authority you cannot prove. Therefore you play the bait and switch game with 'inspiration' 'miracles' 'calling' 'NT inclusion' 'prophecy' none of which equate to God given authority to write new Law.
If Paul never contradicts the Authority of Moses and Jesus as you say, then Paul exercised no authority of his own in regards writing new Law. ---Thank you for proving my point.---
(Btw David, If Paul is simply read literally, he does contradict Moses and Jesus and you must do exegetical acrobatics to harmonize Paul with Moses and Jesus. ----- If you want to start a thread on Paul's alleged contradictions, be prepared to be schooled).
Sadlup the “prophetic” Chuckk, never tires of putting his ignorance on display.
Once again he claims Paul must not be an Apostle based only on his subjective fiat.
Just like the false Rabbis in Jesus day, who were immune to empirical proofs and who claimed to love Moses and the prophets, wanna be Rabbi Chuckk claims to love Moses and Jesus but doesn’t want to believe them.
"Just like the false Rabbis in Jesus day, who were immune to empirical proofs and who claimed to love Moses and the prophets, wanna be Rabbi Chuckk claims to love Moses and Jesus but doesn’t want to believe them."
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How do we know I'm immune to empirical proofs? You have yet to provide any.
chuckles: We are fairly tired of your flooding our posts with your hate of Paul's inspired writings. Why not go to a Jewish Forum where everyone will love your Jewish beliefs??
**THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS **FAITH** EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH LOVE**!!{Galatians 5:6}
Acts 26:17,18: Jesus said to Paul, "I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH**!"
Romans 1:17: For in the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is **BY FAITH FROM FIRST TO LAST**!!
Romans 3:23-25: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood--to be received **BY FAITH**!!
Romans 3:27,28: Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? **NO**, because of the law that **REQUIRES FAITH**! For we maintain that a person is **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** apart from the works of the law!!
Romans 5:1,2: Therefore, since we have been **JUSTIFIED THOUGH FAITH**, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access **BY FAITH** into this grace in which we now stand!!
Romans 10:5-9: Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them." {Lev 18:5} But the righteousness that comes **BY FAITH** says...The word is near you: it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning **FAITH** that we proclaim: IF you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your **FAITH** and are saved!!
Romans 12:3: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH** God has distributed to each of you!!
Romans 14:23: Everything that does not come **FROM FAITH** is sin!!
2 Corinthians 1:24: We work with you for your joy, because it is **BY FAITH** you stand firm!!
2 Corinthians 5:6-10: We are always confident and know that as long as we are at home with the body we are away from the Lord. For we live **BY FAITH**, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please Him... For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad!!
Galatians 2:16: We know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but **BY FAITH** in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our **FAITH** in Christ Jesus that we may be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law **NO ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED**!!
Galatians 3:23-26: Before the coming of this **FAITH**, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the **FAITH** that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH**. Now that this **FAITH** has come we are **NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVION OF THE LAW**. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God **THROUGH FAITH**!!
Galatians 5:5,6: For through the Spirit we eagerly await **BY FAITH** the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is **FAITH** expressing itself through **LOVE**!!
Ephesians 2:8-10: For it is by grace you have been saved, **THROUGH FAITH**--and this is not from yourselves, it is the **GIFT** of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S HANDIWORK**, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!!
Ephesians 3:16,17: I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts **THROUGH FAITH**!!
I Thessalonians 1:3: We remember before our God and Father you work produced **BY FAITH**!!
2 Thessalonians 1:3,4: We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your **FAITH** is growing **MORE AND MORE**....Therefore, among God's churches we boast about your perseverance and **FAITH** in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring!!
2 Thessalonians 1:11: We constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of His calling, and that by His power He may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed **PROMPTED BY FAITH**!!
I Timothy 1:3,4: Command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer... Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is **BY FAITH**!!
2 Timothy 3:14,15: Continue in what you have learned and become convinced of...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation **THROUGH FAITH** in Christ Jesus!!
Hebrews 11:1,3,6: So **FAITH** is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see...**BY FAITH** we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, in that what is seen was not made out of what was visible... Without **FAITH** it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He **REWARDS** those who earnestly seek Him!!
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Hebrews 12:1,2: Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Pioneer and Perfecter of our **FAITH**!!
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!
**THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS **FAITH** EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH LOVE**!!{Galatians 5:6}
Acts 26:17,18: Jesus said to Paul, "I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH**!"
Romans 1:17: For in the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is **BY FAITH FROM FIRST TO LAST**!!
Romans 3:23-25: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of His blood--to be received **BY FAITH**!!
Romans 3:27,28: Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? **NO**, because of the law that **REQUIRES FAITH**! For we maintain that a person is **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** apart from the works of the law!!
Romans 5:1,2: Therefore, since we have been **JUSTIFIED THOUGH FAITH**, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access **BY FAITH** into this grace in which we now stand!!
Romans 10:5-9: Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them." {Lev 18:5} But the righteousness that comes **BY FAITH** says...The word is near you: it is in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the message concerning **FAITH** that we proclaim: IF you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your **FAITH** and are saved!!
Romans 12:3: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH** God has distributed to each of you!!
Romans 14:23: Everything that does not come **FROM FAITH** is sin!!
2 Corinthians 1:24: We work with you for your joy, because it is **BY FAITH** you stand firm!!
2 Corinthians 5:6-10: We are always confident and know that as long as we are at home with the body we are away from the Lord. For we live **BY FAITH**, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please Him... For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad!!
Galatians 2:16: We know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but **BY FAITH** in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our **FAITH** in Christ Jesus that we may be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH** in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law **NO ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED**!!
Galatians 3:23-26: Before the coming of this **FAITH**, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the **FAITH** that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be **JUSTIFIED BY FAITH**. Now that this **FAITH** has come we are **NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVION OF THE LAW**. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God **THROUGH FAITH**!!
Galatians 5:5,6: For through the Spirit we eagerly await **BY FAITH** the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is **FAITH** expressing itself through **LOVE**!!
Ephesians 2:8-10: For it is by grace you have been saved, **THROUGH FAITH**--and this is not from yourselves, it is the **GIFT** of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S HANDIWORK**, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do!!
Ephesians 3:16,17: I pray that out of His glorious riches He may strengthen you with power through His Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts **THROUGH FAITH**!!
I Thessalonians 1:3: We remember before our God and Father you work produced **BY FAITH**!!
2 Thessalonians 1:3,4: We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your **FAITH** is growing **MORE AND MORE**....Therefore, among God's churches we boast about your perseverance and **FAITH** in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring!!
2 Thessalonians 1:11: We constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of His calling, and that by His power He may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed **PROMPTED BY FAITH**!!
I Timothy 1:3,4: Command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer... Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is **BY FAITH**!!
2 Timothy 3:14,15: Continue in what you have learned and become convinced of...and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation **THROUGH FAITH** in Christ Jesus!!
Hebrews 11:1,3,6: So **FAITH** is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see...**BY FAITH** we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, in that what is seen was not made out of what was visible... Without **FAITH** it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He **REWARDS** those who earnestly seek Him!!
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Hebrews 12:1,2: Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Pioneer and Perfecter of our **FAITH**!!
If something is changed from what God stated, then someone else is the originator of that idea. That doesn't supersede what God has already declared.
I wasn't speaking of something like taking gold and melting it into an idol. Maybe that's what you were getting at? We can be corrupt, but they doesn't change the purpose of God's design.
When someone says something, we measure it against God's truth. If it originated with Him, then the idea should match. If it's in direct opposition, then we toss it out.
Respectfully, there are different ways to approach the Bible. If you approach the Bible as every word in it is 100% the words of God just because it is in the approved Bible, then you are correct in believing Paul was an Apostle.
I don't judge you for believing that way. However, I do not believe the same way. I believe the Bible is indeed a tool to bring us into relationship with God. But I see it more of a written account by the believers who went before us of their relationships or lack of relationships with God. In other words; I don't see every word in the Bible to be a command of God just because it is in the Bible.
Again, I don't judge you and your relationship with God or what you believe about the Bible. However this is a Biblical Discussion Forum, I should have the same freedom as you to approach the Bible how I want.
As to Paul: The way I read the Bible, I notice it is only 'The Paul Luke team' who refer to Paul as an Apostle. I think it is fair to question why none of the 12 Apostles or Jesus ever refer to him as an Apostle.
Hopefully you realize I am not judging you or trying to get you to change your mind. I only ask the same freedom from you to be able to discuss the Bible from different perspectives.
