I have a red flag feeling when I see the word "trinity".
I find it can be traced back to Tertullian's vain philosophies and deceit that Paul warns about. Who knows where Tertullian got it but the trinity is not a new doctrine , it can be seen in Babylon with Baal, Ishtar and Tammuz. Christian theology was largely organized and nurtured in the schools of Alexandria, and Alexandria was not only the meeting place of East and West, it was also the place where the decrepit theology of Egypt was revivified by contact with the speculative philosophy of Greece. The library at Alexandria burned and the first person blamed for the destruction is none other than Julius Caesar himself. In 48 BC, Caesar was pursuing Pompey into Egypt when he was suddenly cut off by an Egyptian fleet at Alexandria.
This however is what I do believe about the Godhead..
Genesis 1 God created....
Exodus 3:4 I AM
Isaiah 43 :1-2, 10-15 Redeemer, no Savior beside me.
Isaiah 46:9-11 No other God , end from beginning
Isaiah 49:16 I have inscribed you on my palms.
John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the Word and the Word....
John 8:58 Before Abraham was , I AM.
John 14:9-11 He that has seen me has seen the Father.
John 1:18 in the bosom of the Father
Colossians 2:9 ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily
1 Corinthians 8:6 For us there is ONE God, the FATHER.
Isaiah 49:16 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands;
thy walls are continually before me."
[And this is supposed to mean what? I hate it when people post Scripture thinking everyone should just automatically understand what THEY mean by it]
Then you write:
"Yep, pretty clear to me. Now for those that have been brainwashed the scriptures may take a while to sink in. Depending on the level of "education" one has about the Godhead and "Trinity""
[Oh here is the clincher: dependening on our "education" we will be able to read this posters mind, if not, you're just brainwashed.
The reality is: the more education a person has, The more interpretations a person realizes there are. Speaking of education: crucification victims were nailed through the wrist, not the palms]
**WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW** GALATIANS 3:25** IN THE OT LAW IN EXODUS 20:2 GOD SAYS, "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME." HOWEVER, IN THE NT OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST IS CALLED **LORD** OVER 200 TIMES AND **GOD** 7 TIMES**!!
**WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW** Galatians 3:25
In the Old Covenant Law in Exodus 20:2: God says, "You shall have no other gods before Me!"
However, in the New Covenant our Lord and Savior is called **LORD** over 200 times and also **LORD OF LORDS* in Revelation 17:14. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is also called **GOD** **SEVEN TIMES** in the inspired New Testament in the following Scriptures and the {*7*} times Jesus is called **GOD** will be numbered {*1*} thru {*7*}.
And God the Father Himself called our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ **GOD** in Hebrews 1:6 below!! It was also prophesied in the OT in Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus would be called **MIGHTY GOD** in the future!!
Isaiah 9:6--7: For unto us a **CHILD** is born, to us a **SON** is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor ,**MIGHTY GOD**! and **PRINCE OF PEACE**. Of the greatness of His government **THERE WILL BE NO END**. He will reign on David's throne and over His Kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness **FROM THAT TIME ON AND ****FOREVER****.
John 1:1-3,18: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the {*1*} **WORD WAS GOD**. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that as been made...No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son, who is {*2*}**HIMSELF GOD** and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!
John 20:27-29: Jesus said to the doubting Thomas, "Put your finger here in My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to Him, My Lord and {*3*} **MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed, blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!" {And so since Chuckles does not believe he is not blessed by Jesus!!}
Hebrews 1:1-3,6,8: In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us **BY HIS SON**, whom he appointed **HEIR OF ALL THINGS**, and **THROUGH WHOM HE MADE THE UNIVERSE**. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the **EXACT** representation of His being, sustaining al things by **HIS POWERFUL WORD! After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven... When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**.... About the Son He says, "Your throne, {*4*}**O GOD**, will last for ever and ever, a scepter of justice will be the scepter of **YOUR KINGDOM**!"
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT {*5*} GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
Philippians 2:5-10: In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus. Who being in very nature {*6*} **GOD**, did not consider Equality with {*7*} **GOD** something to be used to His own advantage; rather He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted Him to the **HIGHEST PLACE** and gave Him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus **EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW**, in heaven and on earth!! {Including Chuckles!!}
Hebrews 1:1-4,6: In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many tomes and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us b His Son. Whom He appointed heir of all things, and through Whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the **EXACT**representation of His being, and **SUSTAINING ALL THINGS BY HIS POWERFUL WORD**! After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Se He became as much superior to the angels as the name He has inherited is superior to theirs... God says, ""LET ALL GOD'S ANGELS **WORSHIP HIM**!"... About the Son God says, "Your throne, **O GOD**, will last **FOREVER**
Revelation 5:11-14: Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and then thousand times ten thousands They encircled the throne and the Living Creatures and the Elders. In a loud voice they were saying: :Worthy is the **LAMB** who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea and all that is in them, saying: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the**LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The Four Living Creatures said "**AMEN**," and the Elders fell down and worshiped.
Revelation 22:8,9: John said, " fell down to **WORSHIP** at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "Don't do that I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this Book. **WORSHIP GOD**!"
It is interesting to note that only Jesus and His Father were **WORSHIPED BY EVERYONE IN HEAVEN** in Revelation 5:11-14 above; while the holy spirit is not even mentioned.
And why would everyone in heaven be worshiping the **LAMB JESUS** when it is a terrible sin to worship anyone but **GOD**!!
The **WORSHIP** of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ can also be found in Matthew 2:2,8,11; 14:33; 28:9,17 Luke 24:52 and John 9:38!! {Any worship of the holy spirit can not be found in God's Word!!}
Jesus is called **GOD** 7 times in God's Word and is called **LORD** over 200 times in the New Testament, and is **WORSHIPED** 10 times in the New Testament, and God's Word tells us to only **WORSHIP GOD** in Revelation 22:8,9 below!! While the holy spirit is never called **GOD** or **LORD** in God's Word and is **NEVER WORSHIPED** in God's Word!!
Revelation 3:21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with **MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE**!! {These are the **ONLY 2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3!!!}
Revelation 22:3: The **THRONE OF GOD** AND OF THE **LAMB** will be in the City ! {The **ETERNAL NEW JERUSALEM**} If the holy spirit was God he would certainly have a throne in the Eternal New Jerusalem!!
**JESUS CHRIST OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR ALSO HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT**:
Mark 1:7-8: John the Baptist said, "After me comes the One more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down an untie. I baptize with water but **HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**!"
John 1:32-34: Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on Him, but the One who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the spirit come down and remain is the One who will **BAPTIZE WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT**.' I have seen and testify that this is God's Chosen One."
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to, more than you can now bear. But when he, the spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth. **HE WILL NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN**, he will only speak what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the spirit will **RECEIVE **FROM ME** WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**!!"
Note: Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation and the holy spirit is called the **7 SPIRITS** 4 times in Revelation:
Revelation 3:1: Jesus says, "These are the words of Him who **HOLDS** the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**!" {See John 16:12-15 above!}
Revelation 4:5: In front of the {Father's} **THRONE** 7 lamps were blazing. These are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD**.
Revelation 5:6: The **LAMB** had 7 horns and 7 eyes which are the **7 SPIRITS OF GOD** sent out into all the earth! {See John 16:12-15 above}
And so Jesus **HOLDS** the 7 spirits of God or holy spirit which **HE SENDS** out into all the earth when He **BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIY OR 7 SPIRITS OF GOD** all the new converts whom the Father has called and chosen!
**IS THE HOLY SPIRIT **CO-EQUAL** WITH GOD THE FATHER AND OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST**??
It is interesting to note after the 4 Gospels and Acts there are 22 letters and the Book of Revelation that are inspired by God. In each of these books there is an **INTRODUCTION** by **GOD THE FATHER** and our **LORD JESUS CHRIST** and the holy spirit, who many say is **CO-EQUAL** with **GOD THE FATHER ** and our **LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST**, is not even mentioned once!!!
Romans 1:7: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and from the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
I Corinthians 1:3: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**
2 Corinthians1:2: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**
Galatians 1:3: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
Ephesians 1:3: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
Philippians 1:2: Grace and peace to you from **GOD OUR FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**
Colossians 1:3: We always thank **GOD THE FATHER** of our **LORD JESUS CHRIST**, when we pray for you!
I Thessalonians 1:1: To the church of the Thessalonians in **GOD THE FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
2 Thessalonians 1: Grace and peace to you from **GOD THE FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
I Timothy 1:2: Grace, mercy and peace from **GOD THE FATHER** and **CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD**!
2 Timothy 1:2: Grace, mercy and peace from **GOD THE FATHER** and **CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD**!
Titus 1:4: Grace and peace from **GOD THE FATHER** and **JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR**!
Philemon1:3: Grace and peace to you from **GOD THE FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
James 1:1: James, a servant of **GOD** and of the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
I Peter 1:3: Praise be to the **GOD AND FATHER** of our **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
2 Peter 1:2: Grace and peace be yours through the knowledge of **GOD** and of **JESUS OUR LORD**!
I John 1:3: Our fellowship is with the **FATHER** and with His Son, **JESUS CHRIST**!
2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy and peace from **GOD THE FATHER** and from **JESUS CHRIST**, the **FATHER'S SON**!
Jude 1:1: To those who have been called, who are loved in **GOD THE FATHER** and kept for **JESUS CHRIST**!
Revelation 22:16: "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony {All of Revelation} **FOR THE CHURCHES**!
And in Hebrews 1:1-8 there is more glorious introduction of **GOD THE FATHER** and the **LORD JESUS CHRIST**!
And in Hebrews 1:1-3,6,8; Paul is inspired to write: "In the past **GOD** {The *FATHER*} spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by **HIS SON**His, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The **SON** is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word... God says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**!!" and about **HIS SON GOD** says, **YOUR THRONE**, **O GOD** will last for ever and ever!!" {The **THRONE** of Jesus will last **FOR EVER AND EVER** in the **ETERNAL NEW JERUSALEM**!!}
Revelation 3:21,22: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on **MY THRONE**, just as I overcame and sat down with **MY FATHER ON HIS THRONE**!! These are the **ONLY 2 THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3 below!!! The holy spirit who many say are CO-EQUAL** with **GOD OUR FATHER** and our **LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST** does not have a **THRONE** in our **ETERNAL HOME IN THE NEW JERUSALEM**!!
NOTE: Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the Book of Revelation!
Revelation 22:3: The **THRONE OF GOD** and of the **LAMB**will be in the City! {In our **ETERNAL** Home in the New Jerusalem}
Revelation 21:22-23: I did not see a temple in the City, because the **LORD GOD ALMIGHTY** and the **LAMB** are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of **GOD** gives it light and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!!
Reposting your last comment to me since it's buried. :)
"I would venture a guess that if you went to an average Christian Church and asked 100 people to explain the Orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, 95 of them couldn't do it. But those same 95 will say without hesitation, if you don't believe in the Trinity, you're not saved/born again. "
You're talking about human interpretation, but the same is true of Orthodox Judaism, as it broke off into sects. The Pharisees had different beliefs than the Sadducees, who both had different beliefs then the Essenes. I can pretty much guarantee you that all thought their interpretation was authentic or they wouldn't exist as such. That's generally what happens when humans try to build, translate, or reinterpret any ideology. The same thing even happened with "Christians." All used to be Roman Catholic, and now we have Protestants and Catholics. Look at modern day Islam. Same thing happened with the Muslims. They swore up and down that their Quran was incorruptible and unchanged until people started to re-translate and reinterpret. Now you have Muslims bombing, blasting, and chopping one another over disagreements. Short version, humans can make a mess out of anything. Such is life. :)
