Thread: deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
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deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 08:57 AM
if MESSIAH did away with the Shabbat or we can keep any day like people think Sha'ul said why then does HE say in Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:20 Pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath
So if HE knew HE was going to do away with keeping Sabbath why would HE mention praying that your flight does not take place on this day,,and why would it matter on this day?
Why would our fight on Sabbath be any different that our flight on any other day,,and if we all keep different days and that is fine then what day are we praying it is not on?
In MESSIAH i pray you have ears to hear and eyes to see,,may YHWH keep you and bless you
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 09:05 AM
I agree with your views my friend. It is troubling that some take such a view as to do away with the sabbath. The 10 commandments were not done away with but to show us how much we need Jesus. Even the Sabbath shows us our need for Christ.
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 09:42 AM
Ice, legit question...
Remeber, He is speaking about the time destruction is going to take place and people will have to flee.
And I think the reason Jesus said to pray that your flight will not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath, because many people are unprepared during these time..
Also the days are short in the winter time which would mean that when a person stop their working day, if the destruction should come, a person would not have much time for prayer if they set aside prayer time for evening after a long hard day at work.
Although we are taught to watch and keep in prayer always because we do not know the day, northe time, nor the hour of Christ's return or when these things will start. In the winter people are concerned about keeping warn and gathering food and caring for many things, and if the destructions start in the winter it will be hard for many to escape to safety many becasue of bad weather conditions.
On the Sabbath I think Jesus is speaking that we should pray that God will grant us this time in peace to spend in worshiping Him and making right and getting things in order with Him, and not be interupted with trying to flee from destruction in the city.
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 09:48 AM
Sabbath Rest
by Sinclair Ferguson
The anonymous author of Hebrews found different ways of describing the superiority of the Lord Jesus Christ. One of them, which forms the underlying motif of chapters 3 and 4, is that Jesus Christ gives the rest that neither Moses nor Joshua could provide. Under Moses, the people of God were disobedient and failed to enter into God�s rest (3:18). Psalm 95:11 (quoted in Hebrews 4:3) implies that Joshua could not have given the people �real rest� since �through David� God speaks about the rest he will give on another day (Heb. 4:7). This in turn implies that �There remains a sabbath rest for the people of God� (Heb. 4:9).
In speaking of this rest (3:18; 4:1, 3�6, 8) the author consistently used the same word for �rest� (katapausis). Suddenly, in speaking about the �rest� that remains for the people of God, he uses a different word (sabbatismos, used only here in the NT) meaning specifically a Sabbath rest. In the context of his teaching, this refers fundamentally to the �Sabbath rest� which is found in Christ (�Come � I will give you rest,� Matt. 11:28�30). Thus we are to �strive to enter that rest� (4:11).
Since Augustine, Christians have recognized that the Bible describes human experience in a fourfold scheme: in(i) creation, (ii) fall, (iii) redemption and (iv) glory. We are familiar with echoes of this in the Westminster Confession of Faith (chapter 9) and in Thomas Boston�s great book Human Nature in its Fourfold State. It is no surprise then that the Sabbath, which was made for man, is experienced by him in four ways.
In creation, man was made as God�s image � intended �naturally� as God�s child to reflect his Father. Since his Father worked creatively for six days and rested on the seventh, Adam, like a son, was to copy Him. Together, on the seventh day, they were to walk in the garden. That day was a time to listen to all the Father had to show and tell about the wonders of His creating work.
Thus the Sabbath Day was meant to be �Father�s Day� every week. It was �made� for Adam. It also had a hint of the future in it. The Father had finished His work, but Adam had not.
But Adam fell. He ruined everything, including the Sabbath. Instead of walking with God, he hid from God (Gen. 3:8). It was the Sabbath, Father�s Day, but God had to look for him!
This new context helps us to understand the significance of the fourth commandment. It was given to fallen man � that is why it contains a �you shall not.� He was not to work, but to rest. Externally, that meant ceasing from his ordinary tasks in order to meet with God. Internally, it involved ceasing from all self-sufficiency in order to rest in God�s grace.
Considering this, what difference did the coming of Jesus make to the Sabbath day? In Christ crucified and risen, we find eternal rest (Matt. 11:28�30), and we are restored to communion with God (Matt. 11:25�30). The lost treasures of the Sabbath are restored. We rest in Christ from our labor of self-sufficiency, and we have access to the Father (Eph. 2:18). As we meet with Him, He shows us Himself, His ways, His world, His purposes, His glory. And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week � the Lord�s Day.
But we have not yet reached the goal. We still struggle to rest from our labors; we still must �strive to enter that rest� (Heb. 4:11). Consequently the weekly nature of the Sabbath continues as a reminder that we are not yet home with the Father. And since this rest is ours only through union with Christ in His death and resurrection, our struggles to refuse the old life and enjoy the new continue.
But one may ask: �How does this impact my Sundays as a Christian?� This view of the Sabbath should help us regulate our weeks. Sunday is �Father�s Day,� and we have an appointment to meet Him. The child who asks �How short can the meeting be? � has a dysfunctional relationship problem � not an intellectual, theological problem � something is amiss in his fellowship with God.
This view of the Sabbath helps us deal with the question �Is it ok to do � on Sunday? � because I don�t have any time to do it in the rest of the week?� If this is our question, the problem is not how we use Sunday, it is how we are misusing the rest of the week.
This view of the Lord�s Day helps us see the day as a foretaste of heaven. And it teaches us that if the worship, fellowship, ministry, and outreach of our churches do not give expression to that then something is seriously amiss.
Hebrews teaches us that eternal glory is a Sabbath rest. Every day, all day, will be �Father�s Day�! Thus if here and now we learn the pleasures of a God-given weekly rhythm, it will no longer seem strange to us that the eternal glory can be described as a prolonged Sabbath!
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 12:30 PM
so when did Sabbath become sunday or as i like to call it sungod day? Scripture never changed the day of the Sabbath,,it was constantine that changed it not Scripture or YAHSHUA
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 01:11 PM
In the New Testament we have several scriptures that show that that Christians immediately started assembling together on the FIRST day of the week, the day Jesus rose from the Dead.
This tradition has continued on since the beginning, with the only exception being the Fringe element known as 7th Day Adventism, which just appeared in the last two minutes of church history.
If you like I can post the relevant Scripture verses from the New Testament showing that Christians immediately began meeting together on the first day of the week.
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 02:44 PM
Icebro posted - "if MESSIAH did away with the Shabbat or we can keep any day like people think Sha'ul said why then does HE say in Mattithyahu (Matthew) 24:20 Pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. So if HE knew HE was going to do away with keeping Sabbath why would HE mention praying that your flight does not take place on this day,,and why would it matter on this day?"
I don't believe the Sabbath has been done away with, but as far as the verses given in Matthew 24, my personal belief is that we have to consider who Jesus was talking to... those in Judaea. Jews. When Jesus said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:", and considering the other things He mentioned as far as urgency goes.. don't go back for your clothes, don't return to your homes, etc, these people have to flee in a minute, and yes, winter would be a bad time to flee into the mountains with just the clothes on your back and no supplies. As for the Sabbath, I'm not sure how it is today, but back then you weren't allowed to travel far on the Sabbath as it broke Sabbath law.
As to the Sabbath day itself, regardless of when one observes it, do we all observe it as it was originally commanded? We travel to Church, and we do other 'busy' things. God says we're not to do any work. I work every other weekend. So I'm breaking this commandment. How much of the law do we need to keep and how much of it can we get away with? Jesus didn't get rid of the law, but He did fulfill it, knowing that we could never keep it.
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 02:57 PM
James, I have a question which is kind of a paraphrase of what muslims ask me.
I don't doubt the fact that the first Christians began meeting on the first day of the week. BUT, was that mandated by God who set the sabbath as being from Friday evening till Saturday evening? If not, were they wrong to do so? Or did they keep the original sabbath and meet only once the sabbath was over (the first day of the week)?
I'll lay my cards on the table because this isn't a trick question to catch anyone out. I personally keep Sunday as the sabbath, as do most Western Christians.
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 03:48 PM
yes please post the verses that prove Sabbath was changed to sungod day ,,,thank you
i have seen where HE rose on Sabbath cause Scripture says that the tomb was empty before sunrise or it was still dark,,if you understand that HE died on Passover and three days and nights later would be Shabbat not sungod day
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 03:57 PM
not all of the Feast in the Torah have been fulfilled ,,we can not be the ones to pick and choose what laws or Scripture we get to keep fact is we keep it all ,,it was only the sacrifice that is not needed cause HE did become the final sacrifice,,,as for fulfilling ,,if you fulfill something do you then do away with it,,,,if i fulfill the law do not run stop lights one time then can i run all of them after that,,,the point is that the Emissaries kept the Feast and the Sabbaths so if they were done away with or don't matter and can be decided anyway you feel like keeping them,,why would they bother keeping them,,,YAHSHUA broke the laws of the pharisees and so why would if it is by tradition would the Emissaries keep tradition only for tradition sake?
deep questions that need thoughtful consideration 2
Posted : 3 May, 2011 05:36 PM
1. Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1-7; Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1).
2. Jesus appeared to the disciples on the first day of the week (John 20:19).
3. Jesus appeared inside the room to the eleven disciples eight days after the first day of the week. The Jewish way of measuring days meant that it was again Sunday
(John 20:26).
4. The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost, the first day of the week (Lev. 23:16; Acts 2:1).
5. The first sermon was preached by Peter on the first day of the week (Acts 2:14).
6. Three thousand converts joined the church on the first day of the week (Acts 2:41).
7. The three thousand were baptized on the first day of the week (Acts 2:41).
8. The Christians assembled broke bread on the first day of the week.
9. The Christians also heard a message from Paul on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). Note: the reference is until midnight which is not the Jewish method of measuring days, but the Roman system.
10. Paul instructed the churches to put aside contributions on the first day of the week
(1 Cor. 16:2).
11. Jesus gave the apostle John the vision of Revelation on the first day of the week
