If we all have a choice, what made you make the right choice? Do you agree that, when we started, we were all in the same condition, and we all had the same tools, the same chance for salvation? So if all else is equal, what made you accept and your neighbor reject? How did you get to that point?
How can you not say it is something in you - that you are better? You may be modest, but your modesty doesn't change the facts. You did what you were supposed to, the person who goes to hell didn't. What makes you better?
"Do you agree that, when we started, we were all in the same condition, and we all had the same tools, the same chance for salvation?"
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No No No, I don't agree.
Anyone with average observation skills and exposure to animals and people know this isn't true. I say animals because it takes a generation to observe a few generations in people,with animals such as horses and dogs predispositions related to genetics is easily and repeatedly observed.
One thing I have noticed about Calvinists is there is no "feel", no "flow" no "life", everything has to be sharp corners, perpendicular or at right angles, black and white or it cannot be true.
Genetics aside, there is enviroment. A child born into a family of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, sexual abuse does not have the same start as a child born into a loving Christian home.
What made me accept Jesus and my neighbor reject Him? Maybe b/c I saw myself as a sinner and he didnt. maybe b/c I saw that my only hope for eternal life was through Jesus Christ and she didnt. How can 'I' know why my neighbor didnt accept Jesus? Im not him/her. But, how does ME accepting Jesus as my Lord and Savior make me better than my neighbor? It doesnt. But saying that God CHOSE me, would be like saying Im better than my neighbor, b/c God CHOSE me and not them.
"If we all have a choice, what made you make the right choice? Do you agree that, when we started, we were all in the same condition"
first off no i do not agree that we are in the same condition if all being pre - qualified is refering to the entire human race reason being there are some exceptions i.e. the mentally challenged -- one has to be cognisant of the law before they can come to the saving knowledge of Christ's Grace that's clear from scripture
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet
However those who are cognisant of the law & reject Christ's pardon for their sins are as Shaul said "......are without excuse" romans 1:20
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent
& chose to "suppress the truth" Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
& out of thier own pride attempt to usurp the law by establishing their own standards
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God
prefer sin to Grace
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season
"what made you accept and your neighbor reject? "
speaking for myself-- because there is no way i can speak for billions -- it was chronic spine & going hungry & losing all of my material wealth that made me consider surrendering to Christ back in 1989 --which amein v amein selah i wisely did
2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
"How can you not say it is something in you - that you are better? You may be modest, but your modesty doesn't change the facts. You did what you were supposed to, the person who goes to hell didn't. What makes you better? "
that's just it !! i don't personally believe i'm worth/any better than my neighbor :):)
The U.S. Bureau of Chemistry and Soils invested many a hard-earned tax dollar in calculating the chemical and mineral composition of the human body, which breaks down as follows:
65% Oxygen
18% Carbon
10% Hydrogen
3% Nitrogen
1.5% Calcium
1% Phosphorous
0.35% Potassium
0.25% Sulfur
0.15% Sodium
0.15% Chlorine
0.05% Magnesium
0.0004% Iron
0.00004% Iodine
Additionally, it was discovered that our bodies contain trace quantities of fluorine, silicon, manganese, zinc, copper, aluminum, and arsenic. Together, all of the above amounts to less than one dollar!!
As a matter of fact i value my neighbor's soul even above myself that is why i share the good news of Christ online daily with them
2 Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine
Calvinists have always pointed out that Arminians are forced to admit that they were either smarter, or better than the guy next door who did NOT accept Jesus, when they did.
And Here we have them admitting it.
Yes, twosparrows came right out and admitted that he thought it was just blind chance, a roll of the dice that included family upbringing, culture, etc. And he was one of the typical Arminians who said that God was being "arbitrary" if He chose whom He was going to save! According to Twosparrows, your chance of being saved is worse than arbitrary, it is just a roll of the dice, genetics included!
But "babe97" was clear. She was Smarter than her neighbor who did not accept Christ. She realized she was a sinner, and therefore needed a savior. Maybe that makes her more humble too, and hence, smarter AND a better person than her neighbor.
Now RSVP said he was "wiser" than his neighbor. So, that clears that up.
Now babe97, you said: " But saying that God CHOSE me, would be like saying Im better than my neighbor, b/c God CHOSE me and not them."
In Romans 9, Paul is VERY CLEAR that it was NOT because of ANYTHING the twins had done, but ONLY because of God's choice, that one was chosen and the other was not. So, no one who accepts Romans 9, John 6, etc, thinks that they are better because God chose them. As a matter of fact it is the arminian who says:
"well, God just looked into the future and saw who would have faith, and that is how he 'chose' people."
If we are going to accept what the Bible teaches, then the ONLY reason I am a Christian is because GOD showed me mercy.
As we have seen from the replies here, the Arminian can secretly hold on to "well, I made the decision to accept Jesus."
But the Calvinist clings only to the mercy of God...............Just like it says in Scripture.
Twosparrows: Are we not all born in the same condition?
Psa 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Psa 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa 33:14 From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
Psa 33:15 He fashioneth their hearts alike; he considereth all their works.
And born with the same tools and chance of salvation?
Psa 97:6 The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
