What scriptures do you have that say they went to heaven?
What scriptures do use to support that anyone has gone to heaven, new or old testament?
Show me one scripture that says someone went to heaven and I'll show you ten that says no one has. Show me two and I'll show you twenty. Three and I'll show you 30.
John 3 vs 13 : Jesus said, " No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven."
What part about "no one has ascended to heaven" do people not understand.
The last time I said that I was called a jackass by one of the good christians on this forum. Sometimes scripture gets in the way.
The reason you will post no scriptures is because you can't find any except for a vague reference where Paul says it's better to be with Jesus than to be in the physical body.
In My Father's house are many mansions- I will come again and receive you to Myself.
Men of Galilee why do you look up- this same Jesus will so come in like manner.
On the last day I will raise him up. I could go on and on posting scripture.
II Thes 2 vs 1 : concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM
You are smart PJ not going head to head with scripture. If you could find scripture you would post it. You've never been shy before.
Please please somebody, anybody, post scripture saying that when you die you immeidiately go to heaven. I'll keep watching. Shalom
I noticed in the "spirit of man" thread posted above this one that you posted 10 scriptures.
You've never been shy before.
Read the 3rd chapter of Job- he said he wished he was still born then he would be asleep with the kings of the earth. Job new the gospel, til my change comes.
You will not post scripture because you have none.
PJ, was Jesus the first to be raised from the dead? If so where did all the saints that died before him go.
Hebrews 11 vs 39 and 40 :And all these having obtained a good testimony trough faith did not receive the promise,
Why is that PJ? Verse 40 answers-God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
Those who remain a live will by know means proceed those who ha ve fallen asleep.
:glow:...Somebody ate thier Wheaties this morning...:bouncy:...was gona shoot a message to ya HillTop to ask about something else not pertainin to this thread...but low & behold...:excited:...yer mail settings are for betwix 98-99...:ROFL:...Anywho...hava God filled & Blessed day Until those Saints Come Marchin Home...:yay:...xo
Hey GJ, I'm hunting a cougar. An old cougar :hearts:
Seriously, I had been getting mail. Must be a glitch, I'll look into it.
Isa 26 vs 19 : Your dead shall live, together with my dead body they shall arise
Dan 12 vs 2 : And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake
Dan 12 vs 13 : But you (Daniel), go your way til the end, for you shall rest, and will (future tense) arise to your inheritanc at the end of the days.
John 5 vs 28 : Do not marvel at this, for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear HIS voice and come fourth.
C'mon PJ, show some scriptures.
PS- as far as my unbelief goes, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus is God and is coming again to judge the quick and the dead. To receive eternal life one must have faith in Jesus and repentance towards God the Father.
I HOPE.........PhillipJohn was looking for the answer "by faith"
Paul teaches in Romans for an extended time, that NO ONE has ever been saved except by faith alone. The Old testament saints looked forward to the Messiah, and Paul specifically says that Abraham was saved by faith.
Now, Hilltop who obviously believes in soul sleep, says that "NO ONE" is in heaven.
This contradicts the vast majority of Christians for the last two thousand years.
The Church has agreed that the although the body of believers remains in the grave, that their spirit goes immediately to be with God IN HEAVEN, and that their natures are perfected, and they are in paradise and will remain there until Christ returns.
I agree with you James, Paul makes this very clear, and Abraham is our example of salvation by faith accounted to his for his righteousness and faith in God.
Sorry, Hilltop, I must disagree with you on this one, Old Testament saints were saved by faith and grace. God's grace and faith didn't come into place just in the New Testement, His grace and faith have been around since the beginning. The Bible even gives us an example of the rich man and Lazarus in the bosom of Abrahm when he died, and the rich man in hell.
The faith and obedience to God's law of the Old Testement saints is what got them into heaven, as in Acts chapter 17 states that God winked at thier sins in times past, because they were in ignorance, yet they were justified by faith in God just as we are, and not by the keeping of the law, but they faith to believe in God brought them justification. Plus thier repentance came through their altar sacrifices made for the forgivennes of their sins.
The promise of the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ they did not receive, but the Sprit of the Lord was still with them and so was Jesus in God, who was God.
Here are some chpaters that may help you and PJ out.
salvation in the Old Testement cames the same as it does today. Except we now have Jesus Christ as our Mediator and High Priest to go before to repent of our sins.
Obedience, Repentance of sins, Faith and grace saved us lest anyone should boast. Same as in the Old Testement repentance of sins, faith to believe God and God's grace.
