Author Thread: 144,000
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144,000
Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 03:34 PM

Question: "Who are the 144,000?"



Answer: The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) futurist (which sees Revelation as prophecy of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It is also a better fit with Revelation�s own claim to be prophecy (Revelation 1:3~� Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.; 22:7~ Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book., 10~ And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 18~ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:, 19~ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.)�



So the answer to the question �who are the 144,000?� will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality�i.e., the complete number�of the church. Yet when taken at face value: �Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel� (Revelation 7:4~ �And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.�), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews�12,000 taken from every tribe of the �sons of Israel.� The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the Church.



These Jews are �Sealed,� which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (Revelation 6:17~� For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?�), in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come. The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact Divine Judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of Salvation for the Nation of Israel. All of this is according to God�s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24-270). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of � First Fruits � (Revelation 14:4~ �These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.�), of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied in (Zechariah 12:10~ �And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.�); and also in Romans 11:25~ �For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in., 27~ �For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.�), and their Mission is to Evangelize the Post-Rapture world and Proclaim the gospel during the Tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions�(Revelation 7:9~ �After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;�)�will come to faith in Christ.



Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah�s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God. The 144,000 have what the Jehovah�s Witnesses call the heavenly hope. Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the earthly hope�a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000. Clearly, we can see that Jehovah�s Witness teaching sets up a caste society in the afterlife with a ruling class (the 144,000) and those who are ruled. The Bible teaches no such �Dual Class� doctrine.



It is true that according to Revelation 20:4~ �And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.�)�.that there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ. These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ�s first advent), and tribulation saints (those who accept Christ during the tribulation). Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people. Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will take place at the completion of the millennial period. At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God and we will be His people (Revelation 21:3~ � And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.�). The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13~ �In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14~ Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.�)�will become ours, and we will all be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17~ � And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.�)�



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144,000
Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 03:43 PM

I am Amillenial, so yes it is symbolic.

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Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 05:06 PM

Symbolic for what, James?

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Hilltop

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Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 05:07 PM

If taken literally, the 144,000 are men who are virgins. The JVs don't like that.

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Hilltop

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144,000
Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 05:08 PM

I meant JW's

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144,000
Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 07:27 PM

I believe the '144,000' is the church, all of God's people.



The balanced numbering, plus the fact that you can't see a literal 144,000 people, suggests that twelve is a symbolic number for the fullness of the people of God.



I know some think it is only Jewish believers but in Rev. 7:3 it includes the "servants of our God", so that must include gentile saints as well.



In Christ,





James

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Posted : 14 Mar, 2011 08:07 PM

12 is a number of compleness, 12 x 12 = 144. In reality it can be taken literally or symbolicly, this is not something to figure out, this is one of those things that is foretold so when it happens we will know God foretold it.

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Posted : 15 Mar, 2011 02:25 AM

Hilltop, you're correct they are all virgins, and as 2sparrow says, God forbid, we even dare to try t know who these saints are, because there is no way we can know anything other than what is written.

uh, but there is one thing we do know, ain't no body on CDFF inlcuded in that great 144,000 number!:nahnah::party::purpleangel::winksmile:

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Posted : 15 Mar, 2011 04:06 AM

James wrote - "I believe the '144,000' is the church, all of God's people. The balanced numbering, plus the fact that you can't see a literal 144,000 people, suggests that twelve is a symbolic number for the fullness of the people of God. I know some think it is only Jewish believers but in Rev. 7:3 it includes the "servants of our God", so that must include gentile saints as well."

So which 'symbolic' tribe are you from, James? Where do you get this "fact" that you can't see a literal 144,000? Are you saying John got his numbers wrong? And who are these that John saw?

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; -Revelation 7:9

Your conclusion is more from your own reasoning than from Scripture.

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Posted : 15 Mar, 2011 12:27 PM

virgins would be both sexes. all jews.

israel is a nation again.

read it as it is.

The church and israel are 2 different items.

Dennis

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Hilltop

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Posted : 16 Mar, 2011 06:19 AM

Men who didn't defile themselves with women.

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