Author	Thread: Serious Calvinism Question...
Admin	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 07:01 PM If God's Sovereignty and the display of His Glory is paramount. If God unconditionally chooses who to save and no one has free will to choose Him. Then why did Jesus have to go to the Cross and die such a horrific death? God being Sovereign, why doesn't He just pick some, kill the rest and be done with it? Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 07:23 PM God is not just merciful and loving, He is also perfectly Just. You could just as easily ask, "Why did God require the Jews to sacrifice all those animals in the temple?" Sin must be paid for, and God was teaching the Jews through those thousands upon thousands of sacrifices that one day the Messiah, the perfect sacrifice, would pay for all their sins. So, the answer is, to satisfy the justice of God. In Christ, James Post Reply
MargoSolo View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 08:01 PM Christ had to die on the cross because His death was required to pay the penalty for our sin. If God just picked the elect without Jesus dying for them, there is still the problem of sin that is unatoned for. God is Holy and will not even look upon sin. It is not election that saves, it is Christ's death and resurrection that saves. Election points to the Cross. God is just, and to simply elect sinners without the justice to pay the price for their sin is against the nature of God. Speaking of justice, He did not have to pick any of us at all, and He would be completely justified in doing so. BUT the fact that He has provided for salvation at all not only shows His justice (He does not turn a blind eye to sin), but also His tremendous love. Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 09:17 PM With all do respect, you miss the point entirely. Who makes the rules?....God Who have we sinned against?....God Who has the power to forgive?...God Who is Sovereign? ... God God can do this thing however He chooses. He has choosen the way of the Cross The question is why? If you say to satisfy His own justice I humbly submit to you then all that was required was the death of His son. The animals were not tortured and beaten before they were sacrificed and were not crucified. So why wasn't Jesus simply, quickly and humanely beheaded? His death would of still paid the price for our sin and Gods justice satisfied. Why the Cross? Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 09:38 PM True justice would not be a respecter of persons. just adj [dʒʌst] 1. a. fair or impartial in action or judgment b. (as collective noun; preceded by the) the just 2. conforming to high moral standards; honest 3. consistent with justice a just action 4. rightly applied or given; deserved a just reward 5. (Law) legally valid; lawful a just inheritance 6. well-founded; reasonable just criticism 7. correct, accurate, or true a just account 1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause. 2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice. 3. the moral principle determining just conduct. 4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment. One that is just and exercises justice would say what he meant, and meant what he said. Post Reply
MargoSolo View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 10:13 PM Crucifixion was the capitol punishment at that time, reserved for the worst of criminals. Jesus Christ was humiliated, forced to carry the cross, beaten, spat at, and verbally abused as he carried His cross. As convicted, He suffered the capital punishment associated with the accused crime. More importantly, the suffering of His death was foreshadowed in the Old Testament. We see it in the bronze snake lifted up in the desert among the Israelites, and the blood on the frame of the Passover. It was prophesized and described in the book of Isaiah: He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed." � Isaiah 53: 3-6 It was God�s will: Yet it was the LORD�s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makesf his life a guilt offering, Yet it was the LORD�s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makesf his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. (Isaiah 53:10) We hear so much about human suffering and we question God about it, but looking at the suffering of Christ on the Cross we cannot say too much more when we consider that He allowed His own Son to die in this manner. ********* PJ, true justice is a Holy God giving sinners like you and I exactly what we deserve ~ hell and eternal separation from Him. God�s mercy has overridden that by causing even one of us to turn to Him! God�s justice and love intersect at the Cross. Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 10:27 PM causing those to turn to him would be witchcraft. Post Reply
MargoSolo View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 3 Mar, 2011 10:34 PM Ok PJ, whatever you say. :toomuch::laugh: Margo Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 4 Mar, 2011 04:59 AM Margo, With all do respect, You told me what the customs for execution were at the time. You told me it was Gods will to crush Him. You told me how this was foreshadowed in the Old Testament. Yet you still have not answered the question. Why did God choose the Cross? God is Sovereign, He chose the time and place of Jesus's coming, therefore the means of execution. It was Gods will to do it this way. It was God who presented the foreshadows in the Old Testament. The question remains unanswered. Why did God choose the Cross? It almost seems like it is offensive to you to say it---just saying. Post Reply
MargoSolo View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 4 Mar, 2011 06:17 AM Two, I'm sorry, I honestly don�t know what you�re getting at. I answered as honestly and completely as I could. I mentioned the historical, prophetic, sovereign, and spiritual reasons for God�s reason for choosing this method of Christ death. I�ve mentioned His love and suffering for us and in knowing that He suffered so much, and included scripture. We know that we have a high priest that is familiar with our sufferings. (In fact, He suffered more than us). What is offensive to me is how men treated Him in His earthly life and on His way to the cross. Yet, we know that was part of God�s plan. I�m sorry again ~ please clarify what you are getting at. Thanks. Post Reply
View Profile History	Serious Calvinism Question... Posted : 4 Mar, 2011 03:07 PM Pj God caused a series of events in my life to turn to him. It was not witchcraft. I was beaten down to nothing and God waited for me to come around. This is so true. God chooses how to bring us to him. Not your call on how it is done. Who made you the judge on how to get saved. The word never says getting saved is witchcraft.:dunce: Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Open mouth insert foot. :goofball: Post Reply

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