This is from "Days of Praise" a wonderful daily e-devotion:
Neither Wine nor Strong Drink
February 6, 2011
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb." (Luke 1:15)
Whether or not the Bible clearly commands total abstinence from alcohol for Christians, it is increasingly being recognized that alcohol is the most widely abused and dangerous drug of all�causing more fatal accidents and injuries, more broken homes, more sexual promiscuity, more job absenteeism, and more disease than cocaine or any other drug. Yet it is widely promoted socially and increasingly is being accepted even among evangelical Christians.
But the example of John the Baptist is worth considering. The angel Gabriel testified that he would be "great in the sight of the Lord" and then added that he would "drink neither wine nor strong drink," implying a connection between the two. Indeed, Christ called John the greatest man who had ever lived up to that time (Matthew 11:11)--that is, greater than even Abraham, Moses, or Daniel!
Then the very same verse says that John would "be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb," and he is the only man of whom that was ever said. Again there seems to be a connection, for no one could simultaneously drink wine or strong drink and also be filled with the Spirit. The apostle Paul also warned concerning this conflict when he said: "Be not drunk |literally, 'begin to be drunk'| with wine . . . but be filled |that is, 'be continually being filled'| with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18).
Drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation may or may not be permissible, but that does not make it right. "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient" (1 Corinthians 6:12). At least in John's case, being great in God's sight and being filled with the Spirit were closely associated with abstinence from alcohol. HMM
Here's the rest of the scripture- When you go into the tabernacle of meeting, lest you die. That means it's ok to drink that stuff outside the tabernacle of meeting.
Numbers 6 vs 2 - The Nazirite vow.
Wasn't John the Baptist under the Nazirite vow?
1T3 vs 2 A Bishop must then be blameless, the husband of one wife,temperate,sober-minded,of good behavior,hospitable,able to teach; NOT GIVEN TO WINE (margin says addicted), not violent,greedy ect..
This is for a Bishop to set a good example. This says nothing of the common church goer.
Drunkenness is a SIN- don't get me wrong.
Titus 2 vs 3 "not given to much wine"
Grab your concordance and do a study of the words wine, strong drink, drunkinness ect.. And see for yourself what it says.
The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonians because they searched the scriptures daily.
If you are one of the 9% of the population that can't handle alcohol then by all means, stay away!
You all must understand something here.it is a fact that between growing seasons the wine would ferment and become alcohol. that is also used by the priest in old testament times. if israel had a drought the wine had to last for awhile.
This is why Jesus said you could not reuse old wine skins.
They expand after the wine ferments to alcohol.
WE ARE IN AN AGE WHERE WE DO NOT HAVE TO DRINK ALCOHOL.
In bible times they did not have modern technolgy.
About grapes...they will not automatically turn to wine because the yeast on the skins is wild yeast and not powerful enough to turn it into wine.
Grapes that were crushed and left to themselves would eventually turn to "gall" or vinegar. This was what they gave Jesus on the cross and it tastes like vinegar, not good.
Grape juice that is sealed properly will remain grape juice. The ancients, including the Jews, knew how to keep grape juice from fermenting. This was accomplished by 1) boiling the juice down to a syrup, or 2) by separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, or 3) by placing the grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water or 4) by fumigating the wine jars with sulfur before sealing them. The ancients also knew how to preserve fermented wine to prevent it from becoming acid, moldy or bad-smelling.
Grape juice sealed properly with sugar and yeast will become wine. I make a slightly fermented tea called kombucha for my health and you have boil the sugar into the tea and let it sit out for 7-10 days to get the 1 or 2 per cent fermentation in it. It will rot and turn to mold if not done properly.
Slightly fermented wine was used in the bible times to keep from getting intestinal ailments and is good for that today. BUT..it cannot be too fermented to like 3 or 4 per cent because then it becomes unhealthy for your blood, heart, liver and everything else. Jesus would never have made the water into something that was not healthy or would have promoted drunkenness. Common sense. :toomuch:
Many people promote today' wine as a healthy drink, but it is too fermented, full of sulfites and tannins which cause a host of health issues and is way stronger alcohol content that the "good wine" of the bible.
The "bad" wine is what the scriptures refer to as causing misery, red eyes, woes, condemns someone for giving it to their neighbors and caused trouble with Lot and his daughters, Noah and many of us in this forum.
Strong drink or wine promotes the flesh, not the spirit. I have never seen a Holy Ghost meeting with people drinking the stuff.
It is between God and the individual and everyone should educate themselves on what they are putting in their temple and how much.
Some people can drink one and keep it under control, like my dad on a Saturday after cutting the grass. But, I have seen it progress to more in most people's lives including my own in the past. My dying dad told my mother to dump out all the alcohol in the fridge that they kept for special occasions. No one told him that but God.
It's the same for the body of Christ. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Here's a good question...What is my motive for drinking alcohol? :nicenurse:
We have two replies to this thread where people refer to the human body as "the temple". I am guessing, but I think they are using a VERY well known, MIS-interpretation of Scripture.
Where Paul says: "Don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit..."
I have heard this verse used for everything from eating twinkies to smoking cigarettes.
Paul was speaking specifically about adultery, and sexual sins.
I also notice that the only person who mentioned that Jesus first recorded Miracle was at the wedding at Cana, where He turned water in to wine, but the person denied this! And implied Jesus turned water into grapejuice or a "slightly fermented" wine.
Taking in ALL the the Bible says about alcohol, Christians have the freedom in Christ to drink alcohol. If you want a tea totaler religion, check out Islam.
Christianity has the Lord's Supper and JESUS said, "bread and WINE."
At my church, we have the tiny cups, and the outer ring is wine, and the inner rings are grapejuice, so you can take according to conscience.
Which brings me to my next point.....Our main rule as Christians concerning others is to love them as ourselves. Yes, I drink beer, and I really like beer a LOT. BUT....if I know someone has a drinking problem, or they just quit drinking, and it might make them stumble if I offer them a drink, I won't drink around them.
And then there is the CULTURAL point:
True story here......... a couple decades ago, the Jobs Daughters of America, picked 50 Jobs daughters to go to England and meet with the Jobs daughter chapter in England.
The first thing they did when they met was to have a big dinner in celebration....
ALL the AMERICAN Jobs daughters sat on one side of the LONG table, and all the ENGLISH Jobs daughters sat on the other side.
IMMEDIATELY there was a HUGE commotion, and complaints from ALL the girls!
The ENGLISH girls complained that ALL the AMERICAN girls had on makeup, and as ENGLISH Christian girls know, Christian women do NOT wear makeup!!!
And the AMERICAN girls complained that ALL the ENGLISH girls were having wine with their meals, and AS WE ALL KNOW, Christian girls do NOT DRINK ALCOHOL!!!
So, PART, of this discussion is from an AMERICAN CHRISTIAN perspective.
I am Reformed, and that means that I am grounded in the historical Christian faith. So, yes I drink, and I enjoy it.
I am a HUGE fan of the Puritans, and the Puritans had in each village an ale house that was supported by tax dollars, to make beer. The Puritans would say,
"Have fun, just don't have too much fun".
Now, I know about the damage that drunkeness does.
I grew up in a BAD neighborhood, so I have been around that since birth. I understand the Baptist when they say...
"we think it is better if you just don't..."
I get it, and I respect your right to abstain from alcohol.
And if you had a relative, when you were little, who was always drunk, and the very smell of alcohol, brings back all those bad memories, then I would not even drink a beer around you, out of love and respect.
I very much enjoyed your post about the American / English Jobs Daughters.... to funny!
Joey,
Thank you for the wine making seminar ...lol. Very interesting stuff, I am a big tea drinker, only cause I don't drink sodas, not for a religious reason, I just don't think they are good for you, Anyway you peaked my interest with the tea wine. Care to share more?
