Author	Thread: T.U.L.I.P.
Admin	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 10:24 AM I do not have a problem with T.U.L.I.P. However I do have a problem with the "adjectives" of T.U.L.I.P. T = "TOTAL" depravity U = "UNCONDITIONAL" election L = "LIMITED" atonement I = "IRRESISTIBLE" grace P = Perseverance of the Saints TOTAL, even in Calvinism it does not really mean "total"; it just means man cannot save himself. UNCONDITIONAL, God being outside the confines of time and space; who are we say He hasn't chosen because of some condition? LIMITED, to say something is 'limited', it must be quantified and compared. It is like saying Jesus shed a certain quantity of blood and comparing it to the number of sinful people it would cover. Atonement doesn't work that way. IRRESISTIBLE, by making Grace irresistible, it robs us of the greatest gift we can give God : Love The above is not meant to "set anyone straight"...lol. This is just how I honestly see it and am certainly open to discussion and other views. However, if you want to "set me straight", that is OK also, just come prepared. Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 11:33 AM Out in the garden, the cotyledons of a tulip push their way through the disturbed soil of the forum. As any good gardener would do; who loves to see things grow; water and light are given the young flower. A flower descended from a ancient line struggling for life amongst other sprouts of interpretation and the fully grown flora of Scripture. Will it survive? Should it survive? Should it be plucked out as a weed? Or merely pruned? Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 11:47 AM Or.......the real questions! : Should the Tulip flower be allowed to grow as large the Scripture flower? Should the Tulip flower define Scripture, or should the Scripture flower define Tulip? Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 03:07 PM awwwww, 2sparrow, is this the same when Tiny Tim tipped toed through Ms. Vickies' TULIPS?:yay::ROFL: Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 03:15 PM Tiny Tim found Ms. Vickie to be: T - totally depraved U - unconditional elected L - limited in aonement skills I - irresistable to grace aaaaannnnd...drum roll... and that she had the power to be P - perservere in all things...so he TIPPED TOED THROUGH HER TULIPS... Or is a different word?:ROFL: Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 05:38 PM Total depravity does not mean we are incapable of good works, it means our reasons for doing them are unacceptable to God. It is not done without an element of sin involved, usually pride. Only the Spirit working through you can have pure motives. That is why we always fall short of keeping the law as intended. We are incapable of doing it without ulterior motives. If you are doing good works because the bible tells us to, you are falling short. It has to be done out of love and compassion, not for self gain. Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 06:13 PM klmartin, Yes, I agree we are "totally" powerless to save ourselves. I even agree we are depraved. However the acronym states "totally" depraved. I would liken "totally depraved" to a pile of dog poop on my front porch, I am quite pleased when it is removed to the trash. Yet God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. One has to ask themselves "'Why would he care, since they are "totally depraved non-elect, and not covered by atonement"? It seems to me He would only care if there was something worth caring about. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 08:02 PM I have a niece who is a terrible person. She steals and lies to get money for drugs. Abuses her children. (Until they were taken from her and given to my sister) She has been to prison, and is headed back. You name it, she has done it. My sister hates the person she has become, and all the things she does. She will be the first one to warn you about her. But she still loves her. She cries over her all the time, knowing how she will end up. She is aware of just how evil she is, but can't make herself stop loving her child. I think it is like that with God. Even though He knows the end from the beginning, He just can't stop loving His creation. It is not who we are that makes God love us, but who He is. God bless, Leon PS - Though I think Calvin, and Augustine before him, came closer to explaining God than anyone, I do think that it is an exercise in futility to come up with a formula to explain Him. I believe the bible gives us enough information about Him to know that He is not easily explainable. Especially from a human perspective. Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 08:12 PM Hey Leon!! :waving: That's an awesome example! My family and I are going through a similar situation with my aunt so it really hit home. :) Not that I'm comparing us to God at all, but we all still love her very much even though.. Nice to see you again! T Post Reply
View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 24 Jan, 2011 11:12 PM Leon, Yes I get what you are saying, and it is understandable, however you are speaking of the woman's child. In the case of the totally depraved non-elect who are not covered by atonement these are NOT Gods children, rather children of the enemy. (per Calvinism) Your last sentence about Gods love is so true, 'it is about who He is, not who we are'. And that is the main reason I have trouble accepting strict Calvinism; "The Nature of God" Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	T.U.L.I.P. Posted : 25 Jan, 2011 04:57 AM Tandy! Wow! Great to see you, my friend. You have made my day. God bless you. Leon Post Reply

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