Thread: The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
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The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 06:02 AM
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
This is especially for Ferngirl and any other new Christians - children in Christ - who have joined CDFF to find fellowship and maybe a friend of the opposite sex.
CDFF is populated almost entirely by followers of the Rapture Cult as is most other Christian forums. This means that new Baby Christians who join CDFF are likely to be led by others on this forum into the false doctrines of what is called dispensationalism, Scofieldism, Separation Theology, Christian Zionism and the Rapture Cult.
The teaching of the Rapture Cult that the "Church" will be raptured off the earth to be with Christ before the tribulation begins is not the only false doctrine of this theology. The confusion it brings to one's identity in Christ is at the root of its problems. God in Isaiah 19: 25 talks about "Israel mine inheritance." God never talks about
"The Church" as mine inheritance. Church is a translation in the King James Version of the Greek word ekklesia which means an assembly, or a congregation, which can be of Christians or of Hebrews (See Acts 7: 38 for use of "church" from ekklesia to describe the Hebrews in the wilderness).
Christians have their identity in Christ as Israel reborn in him, not as being members of a church with a little c or a "Church" with a big C, and incorporated under the Internal Revenue Service.
But lets focus here on the dispensationalist pre-tribulation rapture and how it disagrees with what scripture says.
Paul says in I Corinthians 15: 51-52 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
The last trump is the last trumpet, or the seventh trumpet. Some dispensationalists or Rapture Cultists try to get around this by claiming that the seventh is not the end of the tribulation period, and/or that Paul did not know of the Book of Revelation's seven trumpets when he wrote this, which is a denial of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on Paul's writing. Paul had not read the Book of Revelation but the Holy Spirit knew what was going to be in it.
There is a second witness in Scripture to tell us when Christ will appear again. it is Matthew 24: 29-30, which says " Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
Matthew 24: 29-30 shows that the last trump of I Corinthians 15: 51-53 is the end of the tribulation and supports Paul's statement that Christ will appear at the end of the tribulation. Now the Rapture Cult comes back and says there will be two appearances of Christ, the first in secret to take up the "Church" to himself in the clouds and the second appearance at the end of the tribulation, maybe to get the people who were saved during the tribulation, but not martyred.
But the Cult is not telling the truth. "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves...Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place." Isaiah 28: 15. 17. The overflowing scrourge and the hail are the tribulation, which the Cult says will not come unto us..
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 10:00 AM
Halfback,
Although I lean to a post-trib position for no other reason except that of history, as I've stated before, I am pan-trib, however it pans out. The main reason for so many views on this subject is because of the lack of tribulation. When one is trusting God for their next meal or their very life; if/when the rapture is going to be will be the least of their concerns.
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 10:30 AM
Two it is always wise as you said to live as though he would come today, this type of post is like all the rest, trying to get christians into confusion. I personally do not expect to be here!!!
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 03:36 PM
Halfback, I don't know where you find this stuff, but seriously, you need to examine it a little closer. You quote Isaiah 28:15,17 and call this "the tribulation, which the Cult says will not come unto us.."
Firstly, It's ridiculous to call those who don't hold to the same rapture view as you, cultists.
Secondly, read Isaiah 28:15 again-
"Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"
Do you really believe this verse is for the Church? Is it the Church who has made a covenant with death and an agreement with hell? Does the Body of Believers make lies our refuge? Do we hide ourselves under falsehoods? Or do you apply that verse to the Body of Believers that do not agree with your rapture position? Those of us you consider a "cult".
If you can't answer those questions or support your post-trib view without the help of messed up anti-pretrib websites, you shouldn't post such articles and accusations.
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 06:10 PM
Bless you halfback, I am honored to be persecuted and called a cult because I am looking for Jesus to come soon and comforting other brothers and sisters in Christ with the "blessed hope."
On the contrary, those who love His imminent appearing are in love with Him and want to go home, so they are busy bees trying to get everyone on the "ark."
Obviously, you are of the opinion that there is only one set of trumpets in the bible and that is erroneous teaching. There are many trumpets for various events throughout the bible and this wrongly dividing the word happens because or the lack of understanding that. You should study the Jewish wedding by Zola Levitt and see the beauty of this event before the tribulation and how it lines up with the wedding.
Trumpets or Shofars are blown to announce the next event and the last trump is the trumpet that Michael the archangel will blow at the gathering of Christ's bride who has made herself ready. Shofars are always blown for the feast of trumpets and that is the trumpet being spoken of here, the in-gathering of the harvest, the church.
We are to be watching and ready when we see the signs and Israel preparing to build the temple is a big one.
Luke 21- 34&36~"Constantly be on your guard so that your hearts will not be loaded down with self-indulgence, drunkenness, and the worries of this life, or that day will take you by surprise.
So be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to take your stand in the presence of the Son of Man."
There are many more but we are told to watch, pray and comfort one another with these words that Jesus is coming for us.
The Pre-Trib Rapture: Interpreting Scripture By Scripture
Posted : 13 Jan, 2011 11:23 PM
fieuw...
if i were a new believer...my head would be spinning right now.....
i think if we do not have an understanding of the jewish sounds of the trumpet and sjofars and their function to announce new things to come, and if we don't read into israel and judah and our place in the body of christ linked to them....we should be very careful to judge the way i now see happening.
first of all i believe the spirit of god leads all men into truth and we are all seeing a certain aspect of the truth. when we put those together, in unity, in humbleness and with a heart to love and not judge....the picture will become clearer of who jesus is, and only then will we be able to start discerning the times and the seasons to come.
i don't really understand why people feel called to say people are part of a cult, when they simply differ in how they view things.....
yes, there are cults.....and i know what i'm talking about......but having a different view on a matter that has so much more depth than we realize (no matter how much we studied it or not).....shouldn't lead to telling others they are part of a cult.
i'd say...be careful with words, coz our tongue causes fires.....and whatever comes out of our mouth it powerful, since sound is light....and doesn't go anywhere once it's out....
i pray shalom....nothing broken...nothing missing.... over those who are hurt by this post or the comments below it and regardless of who things he/she is right or not, i pray the spirit will lead us into truth.....that sets free :). yay! :)
