Author	Thread: Open Theism???
Admin	Open Theism??? Posted : 8 Jan, 2011 03:27 PM In the chat rooms recently, their was some discussion about Open theism, Calvinist and Arminius view points. For the most part, I understand the Calvinist and Arminius beliefs. However, I not quite sure I understand the doctrine of Open Theism. Has anyone ever heard of it and can explain what this means? Is this belief stating that God and Man together determines what a person will do in their life? That Man can change God's mind?? Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 8 Jan, 2011 05:49 PM Open Theism is Wesleyan Theology run amok. It is the belief that God is not in control here on earth, man is. That God does not know what is going to happen in advance because it is all determined by man's "free will". Basically the same old story. Man trying to be God. This very thing is the reason Jacobus Arminius was denounced by the RCC and Protestant Movement as a heretic. It doesn't take much of an imagination to see the roots of this evil doctrine. On the other side you have hyper Calvinism, which is just as evil. When will we learn that God is not restrained by our limiting doctrines and crazy theologies? He is God and can not be placed in a neat little box. We need to accept Him for who He is, not for what we want Him to be. Leon Post Reply
View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 8 Jan, 2011 05:56 PM Thx Leon, that helps a lot. Post Reply
View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 8 Jan, 2011 06:14 PM Leon unless the lord lied he knows he knows he is not in control on the earth. I have always found him to be totally trustworthy, man's terms and titles mean little or nothing to him, other than grieving him with their unbelief. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 8 Jan, 2011 11:36 PM PJ, That is a clear, valid argument. Very Good. The only problem is, it is not true. I am not saying that to belittle you, but because it is a common belief that is not scripturally sound. Just because God allows Satan to pretty much rule this world, does not mean He is not in control. Satan had to ask permission to persecute Job. God allowed Satan to cause Peter to deny Jesus. God stopped and transformed Saul (later Paul) on the Damascus road, against his will. So saying that God is not in control is just something Satan wants us to believe. Have you never had a prayer answered? Or seen a miracle first hand? Those are all proof of God's sovereignty. Leon Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 01:35 AM Let me show you a scripture that demonstrates the whole process of salvation, from birth on. Then you can try to point out how God is not in control. Eze 16:4 As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. Eze 16:5 No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born. Eze 16:6 "And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, 'Live!' Yes, I said to you in your blood. 'Live!' Eze 16:7 I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your brea$ts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare. Eze 16:8 "When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes, I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine," says the Lord GOD. Eze 16:9 "Then I washed you in water; yes, I thoroughly washed off your blood, and I anointed you with oil. Eze 16:10 I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin; I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk. Eze 16:11 I adorned you with ornaments, put bracelets on your wrists, and a chain on your neck. Eze 16:12 And I put a jewel in your nose, earrings in your ears, and a beautiful crown on your head. Eze 16:13 Thus you were adorned with gold and silver, and your clothing was of fine linen, silk, and embroidered cloth. You ate pastry of fine flour, honey, and oil. You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. Eze 16:14 Your fame went out among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect through My splendor which I had bestowed on you," says the Lord GOD. This begins with us being born into sin, and ends with us being clothed in God's righteousness, His glory, and His majesty. There doesn't seem to be much in there about what WE did.... Post Reply
View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 05:10 AM Number one GOD does allow satan he has a legal right given to him by Adam.H If you have ever encountered the manifest glory of GOD you would not say the lord forced him, love never demands its own way, and that is his sovereignty. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 05:26 AM Sorry, brother, but that is just one of Satan's lies. If God was not in control, Satan would not have to ask His permission. Leon Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 05:30 AM As for Saul, his will was to go to Damascus to persecute Christians. God stopped him, forcefully. God blinded him and converted him. Did Paul want Jesus? No. Did he finally believe? Yes. So much for the false teachings of free will. Post Reply
View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 08:08 AM Isn't that the same thing Sil girl was sharing in her post on free will? Deborah Post Reply
View Profile History	Open Theism??? Posted : 9 Jan, 2011 10:37 AM Leon, I am not advocating free will theology, I take the same position as C.S.Lewis. It is a an unimportant question that cannot be answered. However, in all honesty the Ezekiel passage in context is speaking of the Nation of Israel. Yes, Jesus knocked Saul off his high horse, and I must admit was very convincing, but Saul still choose to accept the offer and not to continue as Saul, but rather become Paul. Post Reply

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