Thread: The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
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The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 31 Dec, 2010 02:48 PM
Hello everyone:
I thought the last topic i had posted was the last,yet this will be the very last one.
There are a few people that might be thinking:
'When Yeshua saved me He had gotten a pretty good deal'.
I can't be that bad,i see myself as a good person.
I obeyed my parents.
I have never been arrested in my entire life.
I have been a faithful spouse.
I am a faithful church goer.
I tithe
I have never touched illegal drugs.
I have never drank alcoholic drinks.
I have never stolen anything.
I help others.
I'm a good and faithful employee
Etc.and so on.
Now what is wrong with this person,some might say,wellllll i do not know.
The problem is "I".
"I" is,and will always be the problem.
There is a saying,i think it goes like this.
One day a man who was trusting Yeshua to save him from the wrath of GOD,had this experience.
He looked into the mirror and asked the LORD,Who or what is the cause of all the troubles,and problems in my life.
Then still looking in the mirror,the Holy Spirit shows this person,that they themself have been and will always be the problem..
Yet the Holy Spirit also reveals Who Yeshua is,and what He is like to this same person,along with the Grace and Mercy of GOD..
Here are a few Sriptures which tell of mans depravity.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Deu 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee.
Pro 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
Luk 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Seeing that the heart of man not able to completely obey the LORD without looking for something in return.
Know this that each and every single person in this life is WORSE than what they know about themselves.
Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of GOD,not one person in this life would be able to stand before YHWH.
Had Yesuha not gone to the cross,we would all be doomed.
So the next time anyone shares the Gospel with someone,and that person thinks that they are pretty good;Just ask them this one question.
Why did Yeshua/Jesus have to die!
Then continue proclaiming the Gospel to them.
Agape' and Charis:
George
ps:
Though a person might do what we would consider to be good things,Yet there is not one thing anyone can do to make themselves righteous in the sight of GOD.
Only Yeshua is able to do this,through imputing His rigtheousness to those trusting Him,to save them from the wrath of GOD.
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 05:06 AM
Trucker,
Where does �Free Will� come in to play here? Are you saying that man is incapable of directing his will towards God�s Will? Or that man is incapable of Submitting to God�s Will? That it is only when God �separates� a person from the rest of humanity�does that person begin the process of being saved?
This kind of thinking leads one down the path of �Predestination��because man is incapable of making that free will choice. Perhaps that is what you believe��The Elect� � �Predestination�?
The Church has argued and debated this and came to a conclusion.
Many of the early Church Fathers affirmed the freedom of the will in man, laying the responsibility for whether any particular person followed virtue or vice on them, while also maintaining the need for grace from God in salvation.[6]
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 07:02 AM
@ arch:
Hi arch;
Concerning the depravity of mans heart,free wiil and the early so-called church fathers.
First,we are to call no man on earth father.
Second,i do not care what they say,i want to know what Yesuha says within HIS Word.
Many men have been wrong about much,and even now the Holy Spirit is revealing where menhave gone wrong in the past.
Concerning Mans depravity and free will.
If mans will is so free,then why is man a slave to sin and his old nature.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
In these 2 Scripture is Salvation dependant upon mans free will choice,or is Salvation dependant upon the Foreknowledge,Grace,mercy,and will of GOD.
Arch,maybe you see yourself and others as being GOOD people,maybe even good enough to have YHWH save them based upon their own merits.
The only question i have for you Arch,is If people have free will to choose Yeshua,and have some goodness within themselves;Then why did Yeshua have to go to the Cross.
I would rather trust YHWHs knowledge of Himself,and that of man.
I do not trust what man has to say.
Rom 3:4 God forbid:yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Arch,i hope that you are trusting Yeshua,and trusting Him aloneto be saving you from the wrath of GOD ALMIGHTY.
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 07:35 AM
Beware of anything Arch has to say. He comes from the viewpoint of the heretical catholic cult of the dead woman. Man is dead in his trespasses and sins. Can a dead man choose life? God wills that all men come to repentance ( 2Pet 3:9), but He must first draw a person before they're able to choose Him (Jn 6:44).
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 08:38 AM
@ The slingerman:
Hey slinger,just because Arch might not be right about a lot of things,Yet there is only one means of Salvation.
If Arch is trusting Yeshua and Yeshua alone to be saving him from the wrath of GOD,then you should be encouraging him unto love faith and good deeds.
If you believe that Arch is not trusting Yeshua,then Share the Gospel with him.
Even you are wrong about wh chooses who.
John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Does a spiritually dead man choose YHWH,or does YHWH in His foreknowledge give life,and faith to spiritually dead people.
Then as He draws them do they with thw faith YHWH has given them,do they respond to His drawing them.
Even this repsonse is of YHWH.
Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
YHWH places within the softened heart the desires for Himself.
Agape'and Charis:
George
ps:
Would Yeshua be as hard with Arch,as you and others have been here.
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 11:50 AM
To say that we do not have Free Will and that we are Saved simply because God Chooses us and imbibes us with His Grace is to say that God �makes� us Love Him; it is to say that God �forces� us to Love Him.
If we cannot �turn� to our Creator and Love Him with all our Hearts (on our own)�through our own Free Will, then we are saying that unless God Controls and forces us to turn towards Him�we are doomed.
We can do nothing without God�s Grace. There is Nothing that we can do to �Earn� His Grace. God�s Grace is given to us Freely, BUT�we have to first�Accept this free gift.
As Powerful as God is, He gives us (through free will) the ability to say No to Him. God does not force us to Love Him�to Obey him. If �the elect� were true and there are people that are �Predestined�, then that would mean that some people that did not or did not want to believe in a God have been �forced� to believe in a God. God does not work that way.
The Heart of man:Totally depraved or is there something good inside.
Posted : 1 Jan, 2011 06:23 PM
Dear Gentleman,
This is becoming more complicated than it need be. Take a horse and a man:
I choose to work with that horse, I catch him, I lead him, put him in a round pen and train on him all the while trying to build a bond of trust between us. I can set it up, but the horse has to choose. Choose to accept my offer to trust and learn and you will be given a good home and well taken care of. Reject my offer and be sold to the killers for dog food.
After awhile even mere man can look at a horse and have a pretty good idea which way a horse will go ahead of time. How much more can God look at us and know.
It is not that much of a different situation between man and God; God draws us, sets it up, makes an offer, and we choose.
