Author Thread: Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
firstfruit2

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 08:51 AM

Theologians have long assumed that the laws of clean and unclean meats originated under the Old Covenant with ancient Israel and came to an end with the establishment of the New Covenant. Numerous laws from the Old Testament are thus seen as no longer applicable to Christians.

Many believe that Paul confirmed this approach when he said, "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean" (Romans 14:14).

This reasoning places God in the role of master physician in the Old Testament and Jesus in the role of liberator from God's law in the New. If we assume that God was simply looking out for the health of the ancient Israelites, the Bible lists of clean and unclean animals become only primitive health issues for which modern, enlightened, liberated mankind no longer has need. Reasoning that Christ understood this and gave His followers the freedom to decide for themselves in such matters, some believe God will honor any decision we make for ourselves in these matters.

This popular view is taught by most churches, but does it accurately reflect biblical teaching?

God's view is different

God made mankind in His own image (Genesis 1:26-27). In doing so God gave men and women the ability to reason. What a wonderful gift that is! But our thinking ability is not infallible. When ancient Israel's reasoning went awry, God said, "Come now, and let us reason together" (Isaiah 1:18).

But Scripture also records God telling us: " 'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,' says the LORD. 'For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts'" (Isaiah 55:8-9). So God, not man, should be the authority on our conduct (Proverbs 14:12), including what foods may or may not be eaten.

In addition, the great prophet Jeremiah candidly admits, "O LORD, I know the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps" (Jeremiah 10:23,

In light of these verses from the Bible, we need to carefully examine the matter of clean and unclean meats. We need to be sure we understand God's perspective instead of relying exclusively on human reasoning.

The origin of the distinctions

The first biblical account noting distinctions between clean and unclean animals occurs long before the Exodus. Almost a thousand years before there was a covenant with the nation of Israel, God told Noah to take two pairs of unclean animals and seven pairs of clean animals into the ark (Genesis 6:19-7:2). God does not tell Noah in this account that He was, for the first time, making a distinction between animals. God simply says, " You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal . . .; two each of animals that are unclean . . ." (Genesis 7:2).

God did not have to define for Noah the meaning of "clean" and "unclean"; Noah understood God's instruction and what was required of him, and obeyed. To understand what God meant by these terms, we must go to other chapters of the Bible such as Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

The account about Noah shows that the distinction between clean and unclean existed early in human history, long before God ratified His covenant with Israel. Thus the popular idea that animals' cleanness and uncleanness originated with the Old Covenant is shown from the Bible to be untrue. Since these distinctions existed before the Israelite sacrificial system and Levitical priesthood, it does not follow that these distinctions would cease with a change in the sacrificial system or the priesthood. As we will see, the Bible teaches that the distinction between clean and unclean has never been rescinded.

These commandments-including the food laws in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14-exist for our benefit.

In Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 we find lists of clean and unclean animals. Both chapters give the same reason for God's instruction on clean and unclean meats. In Leviticus 11 God says not to eat of the unclean things to "be holy" (verses 44-45). In Deuteronomy 14 Israel was told not to eat "any detestable thing" (verse 3), "for you are a holy people to the LORD your God" (verses 2, 21). To be holy means to be set apart.

An examination of these chapters reveals no mention of distinguishing between clean and unclean animals specifically for health's sake. Although the larger context of Leviticus and Deuteronomy includes issues of health and hygiene, the specific purpose God gave for avoiding unclean meats is holiness. He wants us to be holy. In God's sight, refraining from eating unclean animals is an identifying sign of the holiness of those who have been set apart through a relationship with Him.

Holiness is reflected in the thoughts and actions of those set apart through a relationship with God. God requires holy conduct-a way of life distinctly different from that of the rest of the world. Holiness in conduct concerns attitudes toward God, others and self resulting in actions that avoid causing pain and suffering and build lasting beneficial relationships. Of course, being holy means much more than merely avoiding unclean meats. Christ spoke of the "weightier matters of the law" such as judgment, mercy and faith (Matthew 23:23).

God gave His laws to physical people who are cursed when they do not follow those laws. Breaking the law against adultery, for example, can destroy a marriage and much suffering for the family. Deuteronomy 28 records numerous calamities that befell the Israelites when they failed to obey the laws of God. But He said he would establish them as a holy people if they would keep His commandments (verse 9).

God's continuing desire for His people to be holy has remained constant. As Paul said, "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:4).

Hearkening to God's instruction in Leviticus 11 on unclean meats, the apostle Peter admonished Christians, under the New Covenant, to live "as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, 'Be holy, for I am holy' " (1 Peter 1:14-16).

Of course, Peter had in mind a far wider range of godly behavior than just refraining from unclean meat. So did Paul when he reminded the Corinthians of God's instruction: "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the LORD Almighty" (2 Corinthians 6:17-18).

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 09:41 AM

@ fruit:



Your understanding of Grace,and the imputed Righteousness,and Holiness of Yeshua,i believe are wrong.

These do not depend upon your obeying the law,rather are you trusting Yeshua to have kept the Law and the Prophets,on your behalf..



Being perfect really says,to be seperated unto YHWH,for His purposes.

For you and i cannot be HOLY as He is HOLY,for His Holiness is not something that is attainable.

For YHWH 'is HOLY',He does not become HOLY.







Eph 1:4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,



Our holiness and being unblemished is by being in Yeshua..



Agape' and Charis:

St.George







ps:



Would Yeshua eat a ham sandwich.

Would Yeshua touch a man with leperosy:



Mat 8:1 And when he came down from the mount, great multitudes did follow him,

Mat 8:2 and lo, a leper having come, was bowing to him, saying, `Sir, if thou art willing, thou art able to cleanse me;'

Mat 8:3 and having stretched forth the hand, Jesus touched him, saying, `I will, be thou cleansed,' and immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

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firstfruit2

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 10:15 AM

So basicly you are saying Jesus would eat a ham sandwich?

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firstfruit2

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 10:18 AM

And the other things you say I am wrong about,I simply don't understand because I always have bibical scriptures to back up what I say!

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 10:29 AM

Romans 14-

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.

But if thy brother be grieved with [thy] meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

For he that in these things serveth Christ [is] acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: -Colossians 2:16

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 11:12 AM

Hello savedinChrist:



Here is an Old Covenant Word for this posting.



This is from Youngs Literal:

Gen 9:1 And God blesseth Noah, and his sons, and saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth;

Gen 9:2 and your fear and your dread is on every beast of the earth, and on every fowl of the heavens, on all that creepeth on the ground, and on all fishes of the sea--into your hand they have been given.

Gen 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;

Gen 9:4 only flesh in its life--its blood--ye do not eat.

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 12:00 PM

@ firstfruits

To answer; no Jesus would not of eaten a ham sandwich before his ascension.; He came to the Jews under the Law.

However now that Jesus has fulfilled the Law I'm sure He would have no problem eating a ham sandwich.

You have used many words making a great number of assumptions. 1900 years ago you would be labeled as a" Judizer" by Paul himself. I pray you will ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth.

You would do well to remember this Proverb (10:19) "When words are many, sin is not absent..."

wishing you the best in your search for truth- ts

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 02:04 PM

YES

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SilverFire

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 02:19 PM

Of course he would. Why is this even an issue? How can we have Christians (followers of Christ) want to hold to the Law? You can either have grace or you can have Law. I'll take grace, because if by the law we are saved, the Jesus died in vain and came to earth for no reason. The law would have been sufficient.

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 02:46 PM

2SPARROWS PASS THE MUSTARD AND THE MAYO PLEASE.

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Would Jesus eat a ham sandwich?
Posted : 20 Nov, 2010 02:46 PM

2SPARROWS PASS THE MUSTARD AND THE MAYO PLEASE.

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