Author Thread: Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
gracegrace

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 04:31 PM

I listened to a message a couple weeks ago that pointed out that Isaiah 45:18 and Gen. 1:2 are at odds. Either they contradict each other or there is another explanation.

How can we reconcile these two verses?

What are your thoughts?

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 05:15 PM

What version of the Bible are you using? I looked them up in the NIV and they're not at odds with each other in that version.

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 05:36 PM

Here they are in the...



NASB:

Genesis 1:2- The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Isaiah 45:18- For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else..."



ESV:

Genesis 1:2- The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Isaiah 45:18- For thus says the LORD,who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other..."



What about those seem contradictory to you? Perhaps if I can better understand your line of thought here, I can answer your question.



As far as young earth creation or theistic evolution, the Bible is clear that life was not created through an evolutionary process. MICROevolution, however, does occur.

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gracegrace

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 05:51 PM

KJV

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

ESV

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

NIV

Isa 45:18 For this is what the Lord says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 Now the earth was [fn] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NLT

Isa 45:18 For the LORD is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos. "I am the LORD," he says, "and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface.

NASB

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

All the versions all pretty much say the same things.

Isa 45:18 says God created the earth NOT TO BE A PLACE OF EMPTY CHAOS, BUT TO BE INHABITED.

Gen 1:2 says that the earth was empty chaos...

If God never intended it to be empty chaos why was is in such a shape?

Here is another point the message brought out:

In Gen 1:2 "was formless..." is better translated "became" formless...

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gracegrace

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 05:53 PM

KJV

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

ESV

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

NIV

Isa 45:18 For this is what the Lord says-- he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-- he says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 Now the earth was [fn] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NLT

Isa 45:18 For the LORD is God, and he created the heavens and earth and put everything in place. He made the world to be lived in, not to be a place of empty chaos. "I am the LORD," he says, "and there is no other.

Gen 1:2 The earth was empty, a formless mass cloaked in darkness. And the Spirit of God was hovering over its surface.

NASB

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

All the versions all pretty much say the same things.

Isa 45:18 says God created the earth NOT TO BE A PLACE OF EMPTY CHAOS, BUT TO BE INHABITED.

Gen 1:2 says that the earth was empty chaos...

If God never intended it to be empty chaos why was is in such a shape?

Here is another point the message brought out:

In Gen 1:2 "was formless..." is better translated "became" formless...

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 06:04 PM

Gotcha...

If you read further on into Genesis, you'll see that God didn't just create the earth and then leave it be. During the 6 days of creation, He did create form and life on the earth.

Not sure why someone would preach about creation and leave out most of the story... If this pastor is at a church you attend, you may want to pray about whether or not that is truly where God wants you. I think it's important when we convey scriptural truth to others that we convey the entire truth. It's not longer accurate if we leave out big chunks.

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bcpianogal

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 06:26 PM

I agree with what Pixy said, and I'll put my own spin on it too. If God created the earth to be inhabited, that means that at one point it was uninhabited...probably a place of empty chaos. But He didn't leave it that way; He moved ahead with his plan and filled that empty chaotic place with inhabitants.

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 06:30 PM

Pixy is right. Isaiah speaks of God�s INTENT for the creation of the earth, where Genesis speaks of the PROCESS of creating the earth. Genesis 1:2 states that it was without form, but as Pixy stated, God did not stop there.



One of the rules of Biblical interpretation is that you must always put a verse into context. It is easy to say that one verse contradicts another if you take it out of context.



�Became formless. I bet this pastor believes in the Gap Theory in which God created another earth that was similar to the first, and then destroyed it (hence �became void�) and created a new earth with Adam and Eve, which accounts for all the fossils we see buried around the earth)

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 06:58 PM

Ready for another horse analogy?

Gen ;

I bought a maiden mare (a mare that never has had a baby before)

Isa ;

I bought a maiden mare and am going to breed her and have babies



How to the above statements conflict? They don't ; one merely supplies more information. That is what you have going on with the Gen and Isa passages.



I believe there is ample evidence for a young created earth.

On a side note: There is a theory that can be proved mathematicaly for a young earth that involves black holes and event horizons which is absolutely fascinating!

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gracegrace

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 07:38 PM

Cobbler said, "�Became formless. I bet this pastor believes in the Gap Theory in which God created another earth that was similar to the first, and then destroyed it (hence �became void�) and created a new earth with Adam and Eve, which accounts for all the fossils we see buried around the earth) "



BINGO! That is exactly what he was saying. He said he thought that in the "gap" is when lucifer fell from heaven, and that it was lucifer who caused the earth to become empty and void. Since it was never God's intention for the earth to be in such shape He re-created it and made man...the rest of Gen. He never left any part of the story out.



twosparrows said, "Ready for another horse analogy?

Gen ;

I bought a maiden mare (a mare that never has had a baby before)

Isa ;

I bought a maiden mare and am going to breed her and have babies

How to the above statements conflict? They don't ; one merely supplies more information. That is what you have going on with the Gen and Isa passages."



...but I don't think your statements are in line with what the two verses say. If you said something to the effect of,

Gen, I bought a maiden mare

Isa, I bought a maiden mare but never intended for the neighbor to ride it so that it would break a leg...stuff happens...so I bought another maiden mare to breed

Then, to me this is closer to the situation. The comment in Isa gives additional information about your intention

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Young Earth Creation or Theistic evolution?
Posted : 1 Nov, 2010 08:10 PM

@Everyone:



Might i ask,what has this got to be doing with ones Salvation,sanctification or their relationship with Yeshua?



St.George

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