ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 3 Sep, 2010 02:30 PM
was curious about the doctrine of once saved always saved.....being the son of a great baptist preacher....i had heard this many times growing up and its still taught today.....I know what i believe today....its goes something like this...
once saved always saved....? yes,no and yes...maybe...!!!!
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 3 Sep, 2010 04:41 PM
I think this depends on your definition of saved. The Bible is clear that Salvation is not a single event in a single moment. I you are talking about Justification then yes once you are justified you are justified. It can be difficult to tell whether or not a person is justified sometimes. Still the scripture is pretty clear in the parables like the Parable of the Talents that the ones that are cast into the darkness outside are in fact servants of the lord who orders them to be case there. Outer darkness is not hell and they do not cease being servants. They are simply "worthless" or not worthy to remain in the presence of their master.
In Ez. 41:12 the description of Ezekiel's temple, or the Millennial Temple, there is a place that is referred to as the separate area or place but there is no description of its purpose. It is near enough to the Holy of Holies but it does not have access to it. There is some teaching that this is the place Jesus is referring to when He talks about outer darkness. I have heard several teachings that those who are sent there will be taught and have opportunity to learn what they might have learned had they been sanctified as intended. It is an interesting thing to consider and requires more study than I can get into here.
The idea that one can lose their salvation doesn't really make sense anyway. If a person is saved then how does the Bible describe the process of becoming unsaved? By what means can they be saved again if the sacrifice of Jesus didn't save them in the first place? It seems to me that the teaching of the loss of salvation is one of those doctrines that makes for score keeping and manipulation. Two core, common traits of religious fanaticism and cultism.
The Bible clearly states that Jesus died once for all and anyone who believes on Him will be saved. If it is through this salvation that we become the children of God then how can God abandon His children? We are firmly in His grip and nothing can remove us from it. None of His sheep are ever lost or tossed!
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 3 Sep, 2010 06:13 PM
As God has said to me, there are no absolutes. Jesus set the pattern when He told the woman, go and sin no more.
The warnings are very strong. It would be better to have not known the Way.... than to know and turn...
In scripture to know, is intimate knowledge. Fast and pray and you will know, not to spread that word, which is not of God.
He has told me to warn them (the churches), that once saved always saved is a lie from the pits of hell. In the Day of Tribulation, when Jesus returns, the ones that willingly sin and do not repent, will not be rescued, seen or heard from.
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 3 Sep, 2010 11:13 PM
hi.. no way on once saved always saved and the bible has many examples... we are to put on Gods Armor until our last breath, we continue to need His Word to fight the battle against satan, if we remove the Armor because we thought ourselves ~saved~ we will stumble and be back living in our old carnal natures... Saul of the OT is a good story to reflect on.. this subject needs much prayer and study.. blessings
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 4 Sep, 2010 05:29 AM
"He has told me to warn them (the churches), that once saved always saved is a lie from the pits of hell. In the Day of Tribulation, when Jesus returns, the ones that willingly sin and do not repent, will not be rescued, seen or heard from."
I guess I'm going to Hell, then, because I won't stop spreading the word of eternal security. Of course, I know I'm already going there because I'm shy. Really. I've learned so much by being on these forums, that I wonder how I ever did without them.
I can say this, though, that if your salvation is conditional -- that is, it depends on your behavior -- then being saved (justified) is simply a waste of God's effort. It also calls into question God's foreknowledge, unless your understanding of God is that he saves people to throw them away.
Such a doctrine also calls into question the nature of individual justification. It requires it to be something abstract that applies to all people as a class but not to anyone as an individual; this requires an impersonal sort of God that is absent of love. That's why such a God can "save" people and then discard them -- because they were never really saved as individuals, just as members of some impersonal class, and their salvation depends entirely upon their own behavior.
Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you...
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 4 Sep, 2010 07:00 AM
like it said in another post A true believer can not
be unwashed
unsanctified
unjustified
unredeemed
those 4 things cannot happen people always assume if you believe in eternal security that we believe and teach you can go out and sin and live a wicked life if a person truely gets saved they dont want to live a wicked life nomore doesnt mean we will be sinless perfect but the spirit bears witness with our spirit and lets us no hay i dont like this sin!to teach that one can loose salvation is calling Jesus a liar and the finished work he done on calvary was enough to keep the believer Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith period not man
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 4 Sep, 2010 07:08 AM
if people would truely study the scripture on the scriptures you use to try and claim you can loose salvation you would see that loosing salvation is faulty and a lie from satan himself
the single most common scripture you use is Hebrews 6: 4-6 if you read all the way to verse 9 you will get the answer 4-6 is talking about unbelievers verse 9 sums it up cause verse 9 is talking about the believer and yes I no there is some more you hold to to teach the idea iam familiar with those to Eternal Security is Sound doctrine
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 4 Sep, 2010 08:50 AM
"The Bible clearly states that Jesus died once for all and anyone who believes on Him will be saved."
But the bible also clearly says that it is possible to fall into unbelief or deny Christ. That process would be: A man believes in Jesus's sacrifice and is forgiven. He grows in his christian walk, and is being changed into Christ's likeness, but when God asks Him to give up a "weed" that is deeply rooted, he either decides he loves the sin more than God, or he denies that the power of Christ is sufficient enough to change him.
Whether he was saved or not to begin with isn't really our place to say, but I believe that salvation is offered to anyone that believes, and if he believed even for a time, then I do think that he was a child of God for that time.
The parable of the sower and the parable of the unmerciful servant would be good examples of this. And as far as the "side room" in the temple where "unfaithful servants are cast"...sounds like a stretch. Where else in the bible does it talk about "weeping and gnashing of teeth" and what does being "counted with the unbelievers" mean?
Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42)
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:49-50).
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 22:12-13).
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 24:50-51).
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:29-30).
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...????...heaven to hell and back again...
Posted : 4 Sep, 2010 07:32 PM
PJ its funny iam one of the only ones you like to attack there are others posting here that believe in eternal security just because I defend it doesnt make me someone who doesn't agree with word
