Why is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today iWhy is it that in the brief time I have put in searching through our rich church history I can not find anywhere tongues being described as the charismatics define it today? In every instance where it is even mentioned, and that is in very few places, it is defined as another language not known to the speaker, such as Spanish, French, German, etc.
It was not until 1909 some people in California started acting weird and speaking in strange babbling that the Pentecostal movement got started. Most of the time the wacky far out stuff we see today is associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it on your sleeve as a badge here. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tongues and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
s associated with the charismatic churches or preachers. Why do we not see this gift in our church history for 1800 years and now we have people who will vehemently fight a bitter fight for this belief?
Personally I do not take the definition of tongues describe by some here or by the charismatic churches. Remember speaking in tongues as a strange babbling is something that does happen in satanic worship. And the devil does disguise himself as an angel of light and is deceiving many. Oh but of course all those here on the forums are to spiritual for the devil to deceive so that can't be what I am suggesting here.
There are 5 sources speaking in tongues can come from
1. The Holy Spirit and I don't believe that is happening the way people describe it, every time I hear about it it sounds unbiblical anyway.
2. Demonic. My personal pick for what influences most people.
3. Showmanship or entertainment. This I have seen and heard and it made me laugh so I guess it was entertaining. But yet sad because of the deceived souls falling for it.
4. A lunatic. Some are just plan out of their mind or acting like they are.
5. Ignorance. People want so badly to be a part of something they think they need to do this to be accepted so the play it out.
I know this will start a fire storm and I am not going to argue this point here. I have studied Acts 2 and know about the Holy Spirit and things that went on all through the book, I have done my research and am convinced of what the Holy Spirit in my studies has reveled to me on this subject. I want to ask if you are a person who thinks they speak in tongues try not wearing it proudly on your sleeve as a badge. It is not very pretty to those who think you are wrong or just plan weird.
Now this brings me to what I have always wondered. I hear all the time about essentials and non essentials to salvation. As long as we have the essentials right we can be wrong on the non essentials and still call each other brother. Really? Is that true? Is that biblical? How much can someone be wrong and still be right? Is there not but 1 truth? I mean hey I could be wrong on the tongues issue but that probably means I am wrong about a lot of other important doctrines as well if I am using the same hermeneutic principles else where as I used on my study of tongues. Or vise versa if I am right about tounges and I did use the proper hermeneutical principles to know this, then those that are wrong could be wrong on other important issues as well.
Like I have said before PJ describes a god I can not find in the bible. His constant attacks on the character and nature of the God I see and know from the Bible and against those who follow God are blasphemous at best and heretical at worst. Because of this I can not call PJ brother. He is my neighbor so I am to love him as such but embrace as brother I can not do with the limited information I know about him. His fruit is bad so I have to come to the conclusion he is a bad tree because bad fruit can not come from a good tree.
Ok all you tongue believers have at it! If there is one thorn that can get people bent out of shape is to call their tongue gift false or fake, it will get a fire storm started every time.
Lu 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
WOW!! Sorry for the confusing post!!! I had it in my spell check and did some editing and pasted it in the middle of the other. Again I am sorry! I wish we could edit our post here. It may actually be a good thing :dunce:
Speaking in tongue(another language) is a non-essential to salvation, but as Paul says, covet the gift of prophesy, and DO NOT forbid the speaking with tongues. I Corinthians chapter 14.
Gifts of the Spirit--Tongues#1100 Strongs Greek-Glossa
The gift of tongues is not necessary for Salvation.
The Just shall live by his faith.
It is by Grace that we are saved,through faith,and this is not of ourselves,
it is the gift of God,not of works so that no one may boast.
I believe the gift of tongues is just that a gift.
A gift which the Holy Spirit uses within a person,to speak forth the word of God,
in a language that is not known to the one that is speaking, in the tongue of others.(Acts 2:8-11)
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
What also is necessary with this gift is, for people to be able to hear, and understand
what is being spoken,this is the reason for tongues
to be interpreted.
1Co 14:1 Pursue the love, and seek earnestly the spiritual things, and rather that ye may prophecy,
1Co 14:2 for he who is speaking in an unknown tongue--to men he doth not speak, but to God, for no one doth hearken, and in spirit he doth speak secrets;
1Co 14:3 and he who is prophesying to men doth speak edification, and exhortation, and comfort;
1Co 14:4 he who is speaking in an unknown tongue, himself doth edify, and he who is prophesying, an assembly doth edify;
1Co 14:5 and I wish you all to speak with tongues, and more that ye may prophecy, for greater is he who is prophesying than he who is speaking with tongues, except one may interpret, that the assembly may receive edification.
Tongues and the rest of the gifts will not be needed when the New Jerusalem comes down from the Lord.
Until that time,let us be mindful not to quench the Holy Spirit from using ourselves,
and others however,whereever and whenever He desires to empower us in order to use us to Glorify Yeshua/Jesus.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
I do not forbid speaking in tongues, when it is biblical. What I am asking/saying is the definition of what tongues is and was then and what it has been understood to be for 1800 years and how it is defined and used today has radically changed and that change in the definition came in last 100 years from the charismatic movement. Can we be this polar opposite in truth on a doctrine and still find unity when there could be more than meets the eye on this matter? This would be an issue that huge church councils would be called and months of debate would in sue and a statement of faith would come forth as to the church councils position on the matter if this was happening 1,000-500 yrs ago. But in our watered down, spineless Christianity we have today where no one can have a back bone and make a stand for truth because we have so many different truths today(did I say that?).
To be honest I really do not care what the people have to say that do believe they speak in tongues this is another tired old argument for me. I just ask that people do not flaunt it like they are super spiritual. That's all! Or what I really would like is some church history on the subject. I would love to know what the Edward's, Spurgeon's, Luther's, Calvin's, Augustin's or any others from history thought about this spiritual gift. Then I could be persuaded if any of our forefather viewed it as it is viewed today by the charismatic churches.
Tongues is a gift of languages, being able to speak without having studied or been around the language, and you are able to speak the language of another.
Have you read Acts chapter 2, the disciples spoke in the languages of the people who were from all the different places, as it is recorded. I think Tucker or Samor someone posted Acts 2.
BTW, Row, if you are convinced ONLY if you knew what Luther, Edwards or Calvin, etc, had to say or their thoughts about speaking in tongue, and this would give cause for you to believe. Then I say to you, that you have a problem with unbelief in what the word of God has to say, adn would rather believe ONLY if these men confirmed.
I would have to say, Houston we've got a problem here with your unbelief in what is written in the word of God. If you trust ONLY what men have to say over what God has already spoken.
Maybe what you should do is ASK of God to give you HIS WISDOM in understanding this matter, and as it is written HE will give you wisdom in all things in His word you don't understand. James chapter 1.
Go to the source instead of what these men or anyone has to say about spiritual gifts, and when you believe and have faith in what is written in the word, maybe...just maybe, God will trust you with some spiritual gifts to HELP your unbelief.
Mr.Row, aside from speculation perhaps some biblical references would be in order to answer you questions or least give some to pause for thought.
The following scriptures I believe apply for today.
1 Corinthians 13:8 �Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Prophecies I believe have ceased, for now that we have God's written word completed on all that he wants us to know that will honor Him and for a believer to become mature. It seems to me speaking in another tongue could very easy be adding to God's word or taking away from it and how if the ones interpreting it are also accurate or not since God has already established His word as being complete?
2 Timothy 3:16 �All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 �That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
If a person through speaking in tongues could easily give a false witness and add to God's word couldn't he or she? Who would really know if its the truth or not for it would not be written in God's word and God says we already thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
God has stated that tongues were for those that believe not. If this is true, then there are millions who believe not.
1 Corinthians 14:22 �Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
I believe giving God's word in its correct context as meant by the Father is a form of Prophesying. It would be interesting to see how others see this verse.
1 John 4:1 �Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
I think the above verse is good advice.
Here is a history of the Pentecostal movement from Oral Roberts University. I will also give the beginning segment of the history, some may find it interesting. With the URL anyone interested can read the whole history.
The Pentecostal movement is by far the largest and most important religious movement to originate in the United States. Beginning in 1901 with only a handful of students in a Bible School in Topeka, Kansas, the number of Pentecostals increased steadily throughout the world during the Twentieth Century until by 1993 they had become the largest family of Protestants in the world.
Since this religion got its start a little over a hundred years ago and not at Pentecost, I wonder why more people don't question the fact that Christ said he is only building one church and one faith as found in Ephs. 4:5?
This question should be considered in any church that began after acts. chapter 2. The Lord says he adds the members to his church daily. Acts 2:47. I believe that is the only way we can become a member of the one faith and one body Christ is building.
One last thought about tongues, could this verse apply?
2 Timothy 2:16 �But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
All the above scriptures come from God's word, but that doesn't mean anyone has to believe it. I do.
1. And when the day of Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all with one accord gathered together: 2. And there was made from heaven suddenly a sound, as it were when a violent wind breaketh in, and it filled all the house where they sat: 3. And they saw cloven tongues, as it were of fire, and it sat upon every one of them. 4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with strange tongues, even as the Spirit gave them to speak.
1. And when. To be fulfilled is taken in this place for to come. For Luke beareth record again of their perseverance, when he saith that they stood all in one place until the time which was set them. Hereunto serveth the adverb, with one accord Furthermore, we have before declared why the Lord did defer the sending of his Spirit a whole month and a half. But the question is, why he sent him upon that day chiefly. I will not refute that high and subtle interpretation of Augustine, that like as the law was given to the old people fifty days after Easter, being written in tables of stone by the hand of God, so the Spirit, whose office it is to write the same in our hearts, did fulfill that which was figured in the giving of the law as many days after the resurrection of Christ, who is the true Passover. Notwithstanding, whereas he urgeth this his subtle interpretation as necessary, in his book of Questions upon Exodus, and in his Second Epistle unto Januarius, I would wish him to be more sober and modest therein. Notwithstanding, let him keep his own interpretation to himself. In the mean season, I will embrace that which is more sound.
Upon the feast day, wherein a great multitude was wont to resort to Jerusalem, was this miracle wrought, that it might be more famous. And truly by means hereof was it spread abroad, even unto the uttermost parts and borders of the earth. 7777 �Ut more videbimus,� as we shall by and by see, omitted. For the same purpose did Christ oftentimes go up to Jerusalem upon the holy days, 7878 �Festis diebus,� on feast days, or festivals. (John 2, 5, 7, 10, 12,) to the end those miracles which he wrought might be known to many, and that in the greater assembly of people there might be the greater fruit of his doctrine. For so will Luke afterward declare, that Paul made haste that he might come to Jerusalem before the day of Pentecost, not for any religion�s sake, but because of the greater assembly, that he might profit the more, (Acts 20:16.) Therefore, in making choice of the day, the profit of the miracle was respected: First, that it might be the more extolled at Jerusalem, because the Jews were then more bent to consider the works of God; and, secondly, that it might be bruited abroad, even in far countries. They called it the fiftieth day, beginning to reckon at the first-fruits.
2. And there was made It was requisite that the gift should be visible, that the bodily sense might the more stir up the disciples. For such is our slothfulness to consider the gifts of God, that unless he awake all our senses, his power shall pass away unknown. This was, therefore, a preparation that they might the better know that the Spirit was now come which Christ had promised. Although it was not so much for their sake as for ours, even as in that the cloven and fiery tongues appeared, there was rather respect had of us, and of all the whole Church in that, than of them. For God was able to have furnished them with necessary ability to preach the gospel, although he should use no sign. They themselves might have known that it came to pass neither by chance, neither yet through their own industry, that they were so suddenly changed; but those signs which are here set down were about to be profitable for all ages; as we perceive at this day that they profit us. And we must briefly note the proportion of the signs. The violence of the wind did serve to make them afraid; for we are never rightly prepared to receive the grace of God, unless the confidence (and boldness) of the flesh be tamed. For as we have access unto him by faith, so humility and fear setteth open the gate, that he may come in unto us. He hath nothing to do with proud and careless men. It is a common thing for the Spirit to be signified by wind, (or a blast,) (John 20:22.) For both Christ himself, when he was about to give the Spirit to his apostles, did breathe upon them; and in Ezekiel�s vision there was a whirlwind and wind, (Ezekiel 1:4.) Yea, the word Spirit itself is a translated word; for, because that hypostasis, or person of the Divine essence, which is called the Spirit, is of itself incomprehensible, the Scripture doth borrow the word of the wind or blast, because it is the power of God which God doth pour into all creatures as it were by breathing. The shape of tongues is restrained unto the present circumstance. For as the figure and shape of a dove which came down upon Christ, (John 1:32,) had a signification agreeable to the office and nature of Christ, so God did now make choice of a sign which might be agreeable to the thing signified, namely, that it might show such effect and working of the Holy Ghost in the apostles as followed afterward.
The diversity of tongues did hinder the gospel from being spread abroad any farther; so that, if the preachers of the gospel had spoken one language only, all men would have thought that Christ had been shut up in the small corner of Jewry. But God invented a way whereby it might break out, when he divided and clove the tongues of the apostles, that they might spread that abroad amongst all people which was delivered to them. Wherein appeareth the manifold goodness of God, because a plague and punishment of man�s pride was turned into matter of blessing. For whence came the diversity of tongues, save only that the wicked and ungodly counsels of men might be brought to naught? (Genesis 11:7.) But God doth furnish the apostles with the diversity of tongues now, that he may bring and call home, into a blessed unity, men which wander here and there. These cloven tongues made all men to speak the language of Canaan, as Isaiah foretold, (Isaiah 19:18.) For what language soever they speak, yet do they call upon one Father, which is in heaven, with one mouth and one spirit, (Romans 15:6.) I said that that was done for our sake, not only because the fruit came unto us, but because we know that the gospel came unto us not by chance, but by the appointment of God, who to this end gave the apostles cloven tongues, lest any nation should want that doctrine which was committed unto them; whereby is proved the calling of the Gentiles; and, secondly, hereby their doctrine doth purchase credit, which we know was not forged by man, seeing that we hear that the Spirit did dwell in their tongues.
Now, it remaineth that we declare what the fire meaneth. Without all doubt, it was a token of the (force and) efficacy which should be exercised in the voice of the apostles. Otherwise, although their sound had gone out into the uttermost parts of the world, they should only have beat the air, without doing any good at all. Therefore, the Lord doth show that their voice shall be fiery, that it may inflame the hearts of men; that the vanity of the world being burnt and consumed, it may purge and renew all things. Otherwise they durst never have taken upon them so hard a function, unless the Lord had assured them of the power of their preaching. Hereby it came to pass that the doctrine of the gospel did not only sound in the air, but pierce into the minds of men, and did fill them with an heavenly heat (and burning.) Neither was this force showed only in the mouth of the apostles, but it appeareth daily. And, therefore, we must beware lest, when the fire burneth, we be as stubble. Furthermore, the Lord did once give the Holy Ghost under a visible shape, that we may assure ourselves that his invisible and hidden grace shall never be wanting to the Church.
And it sat. Because the number is suddenly changed, it is to be doubted whether he speaketh of the fire. He said that there appeared tongues as it had been of fire. It followeth by and by, and it sat upon them. Notwithstanding, I refer it unto the Spirit. For the Hebrews use commonly to express the substantive of the verb in the second member, which they did omit in the former. Wherefore we have an example in this place: It sat upon them, and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost. And we know that although Luke did write in Greek, yet is he full of those phrases which the Hebrews use. 7979 �Hebraismis,� Hebraisms. Now, whereas he calleth the tongues the Holy Ghost, it is according to the custom of the Scripture. For John calleth the dove by the same name, (John 1:32,) because the Lord would testify and declare the presence of his Spirit by some such sign. If it were a vain sign, it should be an absurd naming (to call the sign by the name of the thing signified;) but where the thing is annexed, the name of the thing is fitly given to the sign which offereth the same unto our senses to be perceived. The fullness of the Spirit, wherewith he saith every one was replenished, doth not express the [an] equal measure of gifts in every one, but that excellence which should be meet for such a calling. 8080 �Excellentiam quae obeundo muneri par futura esset.� but that excellence which might be sufficient to enable each to execute his office.
4. They began to speak He showeth that the effect did appear presently, and also to what use their tongues were to be framed and applied, But because Luke setteth down shortly after, that strangers out of divers countries did marvel, because that every one of them did hear the apostles speaking in their own tongue, some think that they spoke not in divers tongues, but that they did all understand that which was spoken in one tongue, as well as if they should hear their natural tongue. 8181 �Nativum,� native. Therefore, they think that one and the same sound of the voice was diversely distributed amongst the hearers. Another conjecture they have, because Peter made one sermon in the audience of many gathered together out of divers countries, who could not understand his speech (and language,) unless another voice should come unto their ears than that which proceeded out of his mouth. But we must first note that the disciples spoke indeed with strange tongues; otherwise the miracle had not been wrought in them, but in the hearers. So that the similitude should have been false whereof he made mention before; neither should the Spirit have been given so much to them as to others. Again, we hear how Paul giveth thanks to God, that he speaketh with divers tongues, (1 Corinthians 14:18.) Truly he challengeth to himself both the understanding, and also the use thereof. Neither did he attain to this skill by his own study and industry, but he had it by the gift of the Spirit. In the same place he affirmeth that it is an especial gift, wherewith all men are not endued. I suppose that it doth manifestly appear hereby that the apostles had the variety and understanding of tongues given them, that they might speak unto the Greeks in Greek, unto the Italians in the Italian tongue, 8282 �Latine,� in Latin. and that they might have true communication (and conference) with their hearers. Notwithstanding, I leave it indifference whether there was any second miracle wrought or no, so that the Egyptians and Elamites did understand Peter speaking in the Chaldean tongue, as if he did utter divers voices. For there be some conjectures which persuade me thus to think, and yet not so firm but that they may be refuted. For it may be that they spoke with divers tongues, as they light upon this man or that, and as occasion was offered, and as their languages were diverse. Therefore, it was a manifest miracle, when they saw them ready to speak divers languages. As touching Peter�s sermon, it might be understood of the greater part of men wheresoever they were born; for it is to be thought that many of those which came to Jerusalem were skillful in the Chaldean tongue. Again, it shall be nothing inconvenient if we say that he spoke also in other tongues. Although I will not much stand about this matter; so that this be out of doubt, that the apostles changed their speech. 8383 �Vere mutasse,� truly changed.
ET you are reading every other word in my post and are way off base! I agree 100% with what you have said. I believe speaking in tounges is speaking in another known language not some meaningless babblings that can not be understood by anyone. I also do not hing my faith on what our church father believe but it is a great back up source to see if we have drifted off course and I would say we have driffted off course. What I am saying is that a new definition of this gift has come along in the last 100 years that contridicts what you are saying, and that I am with you on. And if any of the church fathers had the same definition as what is being toted today as a spiritual gift I would be extremly interested to see what they thought and if it was convincing enough and could be back by scriptures I could be purswaded. You are preachin to the choir lady!
Tongues are for those who DO NOT believe, meaning, if a peson does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God, and speaks French, and God has sent you to minister to the French people, because they are in need of salvation, the Holy Spirit will gift you with the language to speak the things of God to these people for the purpose of salvation.
The people in Acts chpater 2, who were gather on the Day of Pentecost all needed to hear the gospel, and the gift of tongues were given to ALL the apostles and those God had sent to minister the gospel to the people throughout the region. Its all recorded throughout the Book of Acts, all the apostles, and disciples who ministered to the different people were gifted with the languages of the people. Acts records Paul speaking in many labguages during his ministry and he was Hebrew, but spoke many langues he had never learned, but htought the miracle of languages through the power of the Holy Spirit.
There is no where in the Bible where in God says the gifts have CEASED to be. God hasn't ceased to be, Jesus hasn't ceased to be, and the Holy Spirit hasn't ceased to be. Man has creased to be of great FAITH in what God can do and His power, and the knowledge of the works of the Holy Spirit.
God is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore, and what He did in the beginning, He is also capable to doing today until the end. Miracles are still being done, and God is still empowering people to do His work in ministry with spiritual gifts that are needed to witness and complete His purposes and mission until Jesus comes.
You c an't second guess God and His power or what He is doing or is not doing, becasue of your own unbelief.. His thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are His ways your ways. WHO can understand the power or the mind of God to say that He is no longer giving out spiritual gifts for His OWN sake, for His OWN purposes, for His OWN plans to show Himself mighty and soveregin? God doesn't need man to determine what has ceased or what hasn't, All He ask is that you have faith and believe.
I would think that this is why many don't believe in the spiritual gifts and don't possess spirutal gifts, is because of their unbeleif and lack of faith to BELIEVE. God doesn't give where there is no faith and unbelief..He says ONLY BELIEVE.
I would rather think that Its your lack of faith and unbelif in spiritual gift and fear of the Holy Spirit working on the inside of you, for you to say spiritual gifts have ceased.
Itis not that spiritual gifts have ceased, its that your faith and unbelief has not SPIRITUALLY INCREASED... and not the power of God that has SPIRITUALLY DECREASED.
