Thread: I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
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I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 26 Jun, 2010 09:53 AM
Just got back from a Bible camp with some of the youth. The speaker was talking to a few of the councilors a day or two ago and the subject of Calvinism and Arminian views came up. This is what he said...
He held up a cylinder-shaped shaker. He held one of the ends facing us and asked, "In a 2D world, what is this?" "A circle." Pretty easy answer. He then turned it so we were looking at the side. He asked the same question, and we all answered, "A rectangle." "Good." He smiled as he asked this last question. "In a 3D world, what is this?" Before we could answer, he said, "The answer is yes." We were all a little puzzled by this at first. He went on to explain that it IS a circle, and that is IS a rectangle. That's what makes a cylinder. So, there wasn't one specific answer. It was simply yes. We are still in our 2D world, and can never seem to see the full picture. Different people look at it from different perspectives, but that doesn't always mean one is right and the other is wrong. It means we are responding to God's involvement in our lives. After he gave us the answer to the third question, he said, "Did God choose us? Yes. Did we choose God? Yes." He put the shaker down, and we continued on with our usual conversations.
I just thought I'd share this. I don't want this thread to become another debate about specific points in "differing, same religion-views". In fact, I'd be okay if there wasn't a single response here. I just wanted to post this so people can read it... think about it... and pray about it. I hope it will be an encouragement to you. Peace!
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 26 Jun, 2010 02:20 PM
Very wise teacher! It reminded me of a story I heard about the blind men and an elephant:
A king has the blind men of the capital brought to the palace, where an elephant is brought in and they are asked to describe it.
"When the blind men had each felt a part of the elephant, the king went to each of them and said to each: 'Well, blind man, have you seen the elephant? Tell me, what sort of thing is an elephant?"
The men assert the elephant is either like a pot (the blind man who felt the elephants' head), a winnowing basket (ear), a ploughshare (tusk), a plough (trunk), a granary (body), a pillar (foot), a mortar (back), a pestle (tail) or a brush (tip of the tail).
The men cannot agree with one another and come to blows over the question of what it is like and their dispute delights the king. The story compares the six blind men to preachers and scholars who are blind and ignorant and hold to their own views: "Just so are these preachers and scholars holding various views blind and unseeing.... In their ignorance they are by nature quarrelsome, wrangling, and disputatious, each maintaining reality is thus and thus." The morale of the story:
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 26 Jun, 2010 09:43 PM
Hmm...God is attempting to bring us into all truth though. This sounds like relativism, which kinda says that there is no real "wrong" as long as someone has the right attitude...which is kinda true...but God isn't looking to leave us in spiritual error, so becoming comfortable with this kind of thinking is a little dangerous. Not saying that it's wrong...but it's kind of like helping people by always giving them what they want instead of what they need. It's kind of good...but there's no real growth and it starts to hinder their ability to take care of themselves. So I guess what I'm getting at is, yes...you're right...but let's keep seeking the truth, and not be satisfied with just the way we see things personally...because lets face it, what we "see" is not always right. It's not truly a circle and it's not truly a rectangle...in reality the whole truth is that it's a cylinder. So...keep seeking the whole truth. The End.
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 26 Jun, 2010 11:19 PM
I can understand your point. I am reminded of another story, this one personal:
I have an uncle who is in his 80s now. He was a Baptist pastor of a large church in Dallas for around 40 years. He is a very godly man. I admire his a lot. I'll never forget when my dad, his brother, was in the hospital dieing of lung cancer. They called all the family in and we sat with him for two weeks.
My uncle and I spent one evening sitting with my dad. We were there all night just talking, praying and just being together. During this time an orderly of the hospital who had heard that my uncle was a preacher came into the room. He had only been a Christian for a short time. He was very zealous and excited. He was sharing so much about what he thought God was teaching him it was like he couldn't get it out fast enough. Some of what he said I thought was way off base, but my sweet uncle just kept listening and smiling and nodding his head. When the young guy stopped my uncle said, "I can see that God is doing a work in your life. Stay strong, keep following and studying." That's all he said! I was amazed. I thought, you should let him know how wrong he is.
When the guy left I asked my uncle, wasn't a lot of what he said wrong? My uncle said, "Yes, but the Holy Spirit has a hold on him. He'll be okay. He'll get it all figured out with the Holy Spirit's help."
My uncle understood that learning is a process. Line upon line, precept upon precept... That moment with that hospital orderly and my uncle was a very beautiful thing to me. My uncle could have thrown water on the young man's fire...so to speak...but, he didn't. Instead, he encouraged the guy. The guy left beaming! It taught me, we don't have to get saved today and be mature and have all the right answers tomorrow. It's okay to get something wrong...it really is!!! God will straighten it out eventually. It is more important to encourage one another on the things we have right than to pick on the wrong. God's not finished with any of us yet.
The problem comes in when we are not willing to examine ourselves and see the error in our beliefs when we are presented with Truth. It is then, I think, that we could be guilty of setting up an idol in our heart...a false god.
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 27 Jun, 2010 07:12 AM
Grace,
I loved the story of your Uncle. I have been involved in ministry for several years now, in one capacity or another, and I have seen what you are speaking of many times. The encouragement these people receive from true men of God is a beautiful thing.
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 27 Jun, 2010 08:24 AM
"The problem comes in when we are not willing to examine ourselves and see the error in our beliefs when we are presented with Truth. It is then, I think, that we could be guilty of setting up an idol in our heart...a false god."
Very true. If we did that we would choose to fall into unbelief instead of looking to the truth that God shows us. Those that continue in unbelief will be cut off the vine. The most important things to strive for in our lives are humility and understanding. I know this sounds bad...but we should really question our beliefs to the core. Even to the point of unlearning them to learn them again and see if they come out the same. Test them with fire. People that believe they have all truth are in a extremely dangerous position.
I thought about the forums here when I heard this...
Posted : 27 Jun, 2010 01:39 PM
Sam, that scripture is referring to prophesy, not all scriptures. Don't you think you are adding a little to the scriptures there? The word truth is nowhere in there. It is a warning not to keep a prophesy to yourself when God gives it to you.
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
2Pe 1:21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
