I just want to clarify what I think this thread is for.I would welcome everyones veiws.I beleive this thread is for discussing theological issues and to intelligently and civilly debate points that we disagree on.
It is not for someone to just come on and tell everyone else their wrong,obviouslly we know people have differences of opinion and theology,we should be able to make our points logically,without emotion.
Also Im kind of tired of the,why cant we all just get along thing.I dont hate people who disagree with me,but I will state my beleifs(and back them up with scripture,articles from wiser men than I.
If someone doesnt like discussing theology there are many other threads,I happen to love it,I find deep theological issues to be intoxicating!
Oh well,just some thoughts
In Christ
steve
P.S.we can respect each other,and even love each other and have meaningful,grownup debates.
* It is a Biblical Questions and Discussion forum *.
From the Title I get that We are spose ta Ask "Questions" an then "Discuss" the ( Various ) answers given..an have some FUN while doin that...But no one asks Questions they jus give all sorts of Answers...
Maybe CDFF should start a Theology Discussion Forum Thread....Hummm....:rolleyes:...Ima with ya MoG on "Why cant We All jus Get Along"....xo
Nooo... A truly saved person cannot lose his or her salvation. If salvation cannot be attained by works then how can the lack of works or the presence of naughtiness cause the loss of salvation? And there's a ton more I could say about that, but I'm leaving the computer now to go torture my broken arm and run errands. I'm sure mog and James will be all over this anyway =)
Yeah, I agree with you guys. Moreover it always amazes me when a person ask such a question as Why can't we all get alone... my imagination take me into another place... it sounds like something people are saying who are in hell asking satan, Why don't we have air conditions?:ROFL::ROFL:
Usually, the person who asks such a question, they are the main ones who are not getting alone with others, but must reflect thier feelings toward those who have threatened their religious views and opinions, as if the other person (s) are not getting alone. But as Paul says, they should do the first things first, examine themselves with such question and find the correct answer, then show by example who getting alone is done so we can see what it looks like:ROFL:. Christian dissimulaiton (hypocrisy) is self serving.
Yeahhhh!!!The lovely Pixy gets the prize:applause::hearts: .yes dennis,I do beleive in once saved always saved,there are numerous verses that,I beleive,will prove this,but my favorite of all time is John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me; and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." Can there be anything clearer than that? He gives eternal life.How could this verse have any other meaning.God saves us,God keeps us,god perfects us,
What is so wonderful about this verse is that the bible states that we are a gift given to the son from the father,to express his incredible love for the Son
the most beautiful love story ever told!
We are actually referred to as "the Bride' of Christ
In mans understanding,what greater love is their than his "bride to be"
In Christ
steve
P.S.The bible is not a story about Us,so much as it is about HIM,if you get my meaning
We are merely fortunate enough to be the prized possession of the most glorious being in existance
I agree, if a person has truly been born again and totally surrended with cmmitment to the Lord with their heart, number one, that operson will never turn back, and number two, when a truly born again chirstina sins, we are told THERE IS NOT CONDEMNATION TO THOSE WHO ARE IN, BUT THAT THE KEY IS BEING IN CHRIST... we have total forgivenness, when we repent. Thos ewho are turly in Christ are very watchful over what they say and do as not to greive the heart of God with sin. And when there uis sin, rest assured, God will beat you down to the gorund:ROFL:
I was curious as to what some of you think about that issue.
Let us look at king Saul. before he became king he was a true follower of god.
I samuel 10:9-19
I samuel 11
During this time he was the true follower of god.
He chose later on to fall/ I samuel 13
What of King Solomon who asked for godly wisdom and was the wisest man before christ, a godly king for many years.
In his old age he turned away from god.
I kings 11:4- As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the lord god as David's had been.
Acts 5:1-11 The story of Ananias and Sapphira, They committed a sin against the holy spirit. they were believers who lied.
Does the fact this Saul lost the Holy Spirit indicate that he was saved (or regenerated cf. Belgic Confession, Article 35)? Balaam, a Midianite, also received the Holy Spirit to prophesy (Numbers 24:1-2) but he was a non-Israelite and died in his sins (Numbers 31:8 cf. Revelation 2:14). There is no indication that Balaam was saved from anything nor received the spirit unto salvation. Why would we say anything different with Saul when there is no indication that he had faith and works, both of which are indisputable signs of regeneration? When God gives a person the Holy Spirit unto regeneration they believe (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 John 5:1) and they do good works (Matthew 7:18-20; Ephesians 2:1-10) and do not commit sin (1 John 3:9).
Furthermore, the argument that Saul had the Holy Spirit unto salvation from vs. 6 and vs. 9 is spurious. Vs. 6 reads "�turned to a man another"� and vs. 9 reads "�God turned to him a heart another."� (my translation) The word turned is not the word used in the OT/NT to refer to regeneration (as per Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26; Jeremiah 31:31; John 3:5; Titus 3:5) Indeed the same word is used in Psalm 105:25 to refer to the enemies of Israel whom God "�turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants."� Thus the word does not have to mean, and does not mean, that Saul was regenerate (for as we noted above, where is the evidence of his regeneration?). Nor does the use of the word "�another"� imply "�new.� If the word new was used then it would refer to something in regards to regeneration done in the heart of Saul. But where is his new heart? I see no such thing. Where is the heart that God gives "�to cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."� (Ezekiel 36:27)
However it is obviously referring to the turning of something in Saul�s life and person, but what? The obvious answer is "�courage� for Saul already questions his choosing in chapter 9:21. He would need that courage to defeat the Philistines for God�s people (10:16).That he had this lack of courage within himself is indicated by Saul�s later hiding amongst the baggage (10:22) Finally the "�other heart� is also for prophesying, which no one can do unless God directs and strengthens a man to do so.
Likewise Balaam never would have spoken for Israel precisely because he was being paid to do the opposite. But he did as God compelled; God�s will was done even though it did not include Balaam�s salvation. Similarly God can turn the heart of the Assyrian king unto the people for their good (Ezra 6:22 cf. Isaiah 45:1) but he was not regenerate (anymore than God hardening Pharoah�s heart was an indication of His favor to him).
The narrative explicitly tells us that Saul was the handsome and tallest man in Israel (9:2) In contrast, however, when David is chosen we read: 1 Samuel 16:7 "�But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."� David did not need another heart, but had a new heart unlike Saul. Saul was temporarily given the Holy Spirit to aid him in his work but not because the Lord was saving or regenerating him. Indeed, the Spirit leaves Saul as soon as He descends upon David. But David did not need the Spirit in that capacity to regenerate him because, as we have noted, he already was. Thus Saul was never regenerate and David was.
We also must remember that Saul was a punishment to Israel. (1 Samuel 8) God had promised a king to them, (Genesis 49:10; Deuteronomy 17:14-20; 1 Kings 2:10) but they did not want to have God reign over them (vs. 7) and therefore He gives them a man who is no good for them (1 Samuel 8:10-18) Saul was not a man after God�s own heart but David was. Clearly the choosing of Saul was to illustrate God�s sovereign purposes in doing what is good for Israel, even when she acts and chooses badly. When God decides what is right and when we are ready to have it, then it is good. As soon as we act (selfishly) on our own impulses disaster results.
(Note also Ursinus� explanation of David�s repentance in his remarks below).
Commentary:
The interpretation I gave of Saul and "another heart" is shared by every commentator I consulted as well as John Calvin as demonstrated in his Institutes: 2.2.17; 2.3.4
