James you post scriptures, and say what Calvin says they mean, why would you expect a born again believer to expect the heresey.
Jesus died for the World, but then Calvin said the world does not mean all the world.
Jesus died for Sinners, Calvin says no not all sinners, just my elect.
Jesus died for the ungodly, Calvin says no only for my ungodly.
Jesus said without Faith you cannot please God, Calvin said don't worry he will overide your will and then faith will come.
Jesus said you can depart from the faith, Calvin Says no worry you can not fall.
Jesus Said man is to be a doer of the word, Calvin said no worry he will do the word for you.
From Genesis to Revealation God said to hear and obey and you will be okay, Calvin said no worry you can't do anything I figured it out for you.
In all covenants There is a God side and a man side, Calvin said no worry I will reform the word and you can follow me and the early forefathers, those that believe that Calvinism is the Gospel.
Calvin says you can do no good incapable of it, But enoch walked with God and was no more, for he pleased God when he heard his word and obeyed.
Abraham heard and obeyed and it was accounted unto him for rightousness, but then Calvin said no
The old testament is full of spiritually dead men and women, that pleased the lord, but Calvin again said not So.
In the summer of 1985, I knew a man that had an encounter with the lord and at that time he said to the lord, if you are I guess I will, and then for years he was full of the lord as he thirsted of the lord to know him, the holy Spirit always lead and guided him until one day, he meet a Calvinist that said, no Calvin is the way Jesus needed to be reformed, you cannot possibly have the truth, Calvinism is the Gospel. It would be funny if it was not true and all the people led astray. Jesus will never change, and faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word, and whosoever will can be saved, For he Jesus is the way the truth the life, and he will never change, nor need to be reformed.
When he sat down at the right hand of the father it was done.
Dont blame it on Calvin.....Blame it on your bible..with all them ,chosen,predestined,elect,preordained,foreknowledge,verses in em........maybe you could have Walter retranslate it for you so those verses dont bother ya!Course you could throw out everything Paul said.....Oh wait,thats half the bible,that wont work...hmmmm....maybe you could ask that Finney guy.....oh,but then youd be following men and demons.....hmmmmm...maybe them anti-nicenes might know sumpin.....oh.....but there stuff didnt make it in the bible hmmmmm...must not have been inspired.
I'm afraid I might be talking to a wall again, but I give it another try:
*Jesus died for the World, but then Calvin said the world does not mean all the world.
So you believe that all go to heaven?
*Jesus died for Sinners, Calvin says no not all sinners, just my elect.
So you think all sinners go to heaven?
*Jesus died for the ungodly, Calvin says no only for my ungodly.
So you think all ungodly go to heaven?
*Jesus said without Faith you cannot please God, Calvin said don't worry he will overide your will and then faith will come.
So faith is an act of will? So you go to heaven thanks to the works of your good will?
*Jesus said you can depart from the faith, Calvin Says no worry you can not fall.
Where does Jesus say that one could lose salvation?
*Jesus Said man is to be a doer of the word, Calvin said no worry he will do the word for you.
Got Calvin wrong. He said God will make you want to do the word and make you do it after all. If you don't want, you don't really believe, you only think you do.
*From Genesis to Revealation God said to hear and obey and you will be okay, Calvin said no worry you can't do anything I figured it out for you.
That happens when you translate a PK form as imperative and not as future tense. Promise becomes commandment...
*In all covenants There is a God side and a man side, Calvin said no worry I will reform the word and you can follow me and the early forefathers, those that believe that Calvinism is the Gospel.
Where does Calvin say that? Guess you got him pretty wrong, sir.
*Calvin says you can do no good incapable of it, But enoch walked with God and was no more, for he pleased God when he heard his word and obeyed.
Who said Enoch did this without God all on himself?
*Abraham heard and obeyed and it was accounted unto him for rightousness, but then Calvin said no
Abraham believed and it was accounted unto him for righteosness. Calvin said yes to this.
*The old testament is full of spiritually dead men and women, that pleased the lord, but Calvin again said not So.
Whom are you talking about?
*For he Jesus is the way the truth the life, and he will never change, nor need to be reformed.
Amen brother. And this is why Calvin did not reform Jesus, but the visible church back than that taught in contradiction of the gospel, that one would have to save oneself by own deeds.
God bless you
De Benny
Ps: By the way, as we talk of Dogmatics, fathers and interpretors. Anybody here ever heard of Karl Barth? I wonder if he is as famous across the big water as he is here...
Excellent as usual Abedjau,and no,never heard of that dude,enlighten us will you,and DarrellO...Im tellin ya!these forums draw out some fringe groups....some try to hide their denomination,have you noticed that
Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Mt 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house
Does light come from man's word?
Who is in the dark?
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
It is nothing new for Satan to say God didnt mean what he said, The word has always been true and always will be true and the lord said what he meant, and meant what he said:
Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
1 � Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 � And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
You have never "proven" any of my exegesis was in any error. Your opinion does not count as a refutation. One must go into the text in question and "demonstrate" what it says. Not your twisted version of it but what it really says according to the Greek. The reality Steve is that you are not treating the texts in a fair and unbiased manner. You certainly do not follow Hermeneutics with any consistency.
Additionally your comments regarding me needing to repent of my beliefs and that you are even questioning my salvation are stepping way over the line. But that is typical of Calvinists. It is clear that you and the other Calvinists do not have a firm grasp on Arminian theology. I have yet to see a Calvinist in my many many years of debating these issues ever correctly represent Arminian Theology. I have seen them often confuse Wesleyan theology for Arminian and they are not the same.
Calvinists and Arminians both believe that salvation comes by God's grace. Christ's finished work on the cross apart from any works. The differences lay in the details as to whether God has imposed His sovereign will upon a select few and made them accept Christ or did God allow mankind the opportunity to exercise Free Will and choose to accept Christ. Is God's offer of salvation to an elect few or an offer to all mankind? Does God draw only the "Elect" or does God draw all men to Christ, etc.
Additionally, all the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers never taught any of the ideas and concepts of Calvinsm. They all taught the ideas and concepts of Arminian theology. Some of these men were the direct Disciples of the Apostles John and Paul and leaders of the Early Church. From an Historical perspective this is very weighty evidence against Calvinism. If Calvinism was a true doctrine then why is it that it cannot be found in any of the Early Church Fathers closest to the time of the Apostles? In fact the teachings of the ECFs of the first 300 years of Church history are in direct contrast to Calvinism.
