Author	Thread: About church...
Admin	About church... Posted : 18 Apr, 2010 09:36 PM Okay. I'm a little confused, depressed, and frustrated all in one right now. Here is my question and my frustration. Why can't Christians just be Christians? Why do we have to be either Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.? Why can't we just go be with other Christians instead of going to the (insert denomination here) church? Okay, so here is my frustration. I understand that people are different. We are all unique. I also understand that most of us want to be around people that are like us. We want to fit in. Therefore, there are different church families that we can hang out with. BUT... instead of merely hanging out more with certain people, we are LITERALLY splitting the church. I mean LITERALLY. To the point where some Christians won't even TALK or ASSOCIATE with Christians of other "denominations". THIS IS PATHETIC! THIS IS NOT THE LIFE CHRIST HAS CALLED US TOWARDS! Growing up, I was never a "strong" christian. In fact, I'm ashamed to say that I only claimed the faith so as to ensure my salvation. I did a lot more damage than good. Then, I began to see God move. So, I started ACTUALLY trying to listen to Him. When I did, it was amazing. I guess that would be the point that most would say "I was saved", if that's what you want to call it, though this process took years. So, I began to listen to God more and more, and I began walking with Him more and more. I began trying to be more like Him. What can I say? I loved God (and still do). He was my role-model, so I wanted to try and be just like Him. One thing that was always encouraging was knowing that He had spoken to so many other Christians who also wanted to be more like Him. These other people ALSO wanted to live for God. Share His love, grace, mercy, faithfulness, guidance, protection, joy, etc. However, the more I get involved in "the church", the less I see this. Instead of Christians branching out and embracing others, I see clusters. It reminds me of the Tower of Babel. I don't want to be a part of this "system". The depressing part of it is... at this point in the church's life, it's hard NOT to be a part of this "system". Denominations are all that exist. Granted there are a few churches I've heard of and seen that don't claim a denomination, but even then they are USUALLY filled with denominationally minded people anyways, defeating the purpose of tearing down dividing lines. The only place/time I am ever with JUST Christians without thinking about denominations is at work (Sonic) or at a concert. Period. Mission trips? Nope. They've all been inside the same denomination. Retreats? Nope. Well... maybe one retreat. I really can't remember that one very well (sadly). Community missions? Sadly, no. There was ONE experience where we teamed up with Salvation Army, but that's it. I've thought about starting a "church" meeting place where Christians can meet up, worship, and fellowship, but that kind of thing costs money. Money I honestly don't have at this point in my life. I figured that if that's what God wants of me, then He will open a door for it, and it will happen. Hasn't happened yet, so I guess I'm just stuck here for now. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be doing right now. I planned on going into youth ministry, but I don't want to be limited by the borders of a denominations doctrines. Maybe that's still what I need to do, though. Get a job within a church, and just ignore those borders, teaching whatever the Bible says. Will my boss like this? Yes and no. Will it endanger my career in youth ministry? Maybe. I honestly don't know. Is it a worthy sacrifice? Heck yes. So, I guess that's what I'll do for now. "Infiltrate" churches, teach what the Bible teaches, and if that's different from what a particular denominations believes, then just bite the bullet, teach it anyways, and get fired. lol. Real quick... I apologize for the lengthy post. I don't like it when other people post 50 page topics either. I just got kinda lost in my thoughts. If anything... it was kinda nice to just vent. I feel a little better now, I guess. Kinda thirsty, though. Thanks for listening. In Christ Garrett PS: I just kinda typed as words came to my head, so some of this might not make very much sense. Sorry. lol. If there's any questions, just let me know and I'll try to clear it up a little bit. Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 18 Apr, 2010 11:50 PM Here is my advice. Study church history, read denominational statements of faith, catechisms and historic councils and I don't mean on individual church's I mean I mean like The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, or the Westminster Confession. Councils like Council of Nicaea debated the Trinity, Council of Trent that determined the canon of scriptures (the Bible as we know it) the Council of Dort that debated the Calvinism vs. Arminian doctrine and determined the Arminian was a damnable heresy read why they came to that conclusion. Read about Martin Luther, the Lutheran church split from the Catholic church because Luther was reading the bible and realized the church he belonged to was in error. Now granted Luther never wanted a church started in his name he followers did that. Read about Baptist and how the believed in full immersion not sprinkling and that conversion preceded baptism where others were baptizing baby's. A long time ago I had all the same question you do now and I set out on my own to find truth also. But if you are not reading your Bible regularly you will be lead far astray. You need to have a firm grip on what the gospel is and articulate it right. To say just accept or ask Jesus in your heart is NOT the gospel. If you don't do the study then who ever articulates his argument best will be who you follow so arm yourself with knowledge and when uneducated people start spewing their own ideology you will recognize it and won't be swayed but every doctrine that flies by. If you do it on your own you will enjoy it grow and be firm in your faith! You know what Non means? Nothing! If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything. Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 12:48 AM I agree with DarrellO Too many american churches today just emphasize the arminian veiw(without actually calling it that)Like DarrellO said arminianism was deemed heresy by the council of Droit it only crept in to american churches in recent times most early americans had calvinistic beleifs,although they werent called that,it was augustine before him,and Martin Luther who originally broke off from the catholic church and basically was the reason we have protestant churches(the word protest was against the catholic church)Today we have people like Joel Osteen who say god wants you too be rich and happy,while they deny christian doctrine,we have easy beleiveism,just say this prayer,or just be kind,do unto others,claim it in the name of Jesus.....we have straight out cults,mormons,jehovahs witness....ect.that have some recent prophet that had a vision and wrote their own bible,the apostles thought it was pretty important to know as much about their lord as possible,they lived with him,saw his miracles,beleived he was God,dedicated their lives to him,and wetre tortured and executed for their faith in him years after his execution.Also listen to different preachers,John mcaurther is awesome,R.C.sproul....these men are scholars and they care about getting doctrine correct,I even like C.S.Lewis although he holds the arminian veiw,I still found him to be a great writer!Good luck Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 05:15 AM I know what you mean, and I am glad for being in a rather liberal church, that would not be too narrow in denominational doctrines... so I can be working rather freely when in the service later (still stdudying atm). I wanted to point you to the communaut� of Taiz�, but I realized there is no such thing in the States... but maybe you'd be the one to start it, fr�re Roger was also not very big in numbers in the beginning...:purpleangel: Anyway, whatever you will do, I wish you that God always blesses you the path you go. Post Reply
SOS4EMAILFRIEND View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 06:07 AM @Jesusfreak421 I think you have pointed out the frustrations and questions of many christians. I see a christian church-service as a moment to worship GOD. The particular denominational preachings that go together with it, are hardly of any interest. It is not that I do not listen, on the contrary. I just feel it is a monologue and that is exactly the difference between preaching and teaching. I do not need to be preached at, I need to be taught. I great Teacher is the LORD Himself. I do not know anyone who has learnt something really worthwhile that did not come from directly from Him. He knows how to reach your heart and how to invalidate your own thoughts and beliefs. From what I have read from you. You have no problem in finding Him. I am convinced that He will lead you for His purpose. And I am happy that you are so willing to follow. :bow::bow: Post Reply
SOS4EMAILFRIEND View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 06:13 AM @DarrellO I agree with much you say. However, NON does not mean nothing to me. Nondenominational to me means that I refuse to be classified under a specific denomination. There is one GOD (who identifies Himself by the name of YHWH), one Truth, one Bilble and One way that leads to Father. Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 08:13 AM I always but heads with the same issues. I am glad that I once thought that the Church was lying to me and decided to find the Truth on my own. I find that the counsel of men is a good place to go for information but no matter where your counsel comes from the Bible is the final Word. You have to know it, live it and speak it in order to know who you are in Christ and what you are supposed to be doing with Him. If you get too tangled up in Theology then you are losing your focus. I sometimes believe the Church has no idea what it is doing most of the time. Still the Gospel is being preached and lives are being changed. God's people are being called out and as we near the end of this world we will see more of them questioning the denominational teachings and seeking Truth. Thunder Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 08:47 AM JF ~ The Battle of Denominations is jus that...a Battle of Man verses Man...An its one I have chosen not to fight. But I will Fight an Stand in Service within any Church with the Word of GOD...Everyone has a purpose for the Lord...You are called to Stand in the Gap...The Lord Jesus through the Holy Spirit will guide you in this... Non-Denominational...Hummm...I attend a Non-Denom Church...We are Full Gospel/ The Word/Pentacostal/Trinitarian/Followers of Christ...We are "Christain"...All inclusive an non-exclusive... Anywho...I agree much that was shared by our brothers an sisters...the rest...well...to each there own... May GOD continue to Bless us All...in Jesus sweet name...Amen...Luv ya all...xo Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 11:33 AM I don't know. I'm more in the mindset that people should study the bible for themselves and determine truth to the best of their ability...and then search for like-minded believers, while being willing to change and follow God of course. "Everybody being happy together in one big church" is a recipe for compromise in my opinion. I can see working together as brothers and sisters in Christ...but I'm not positive that getting rid of denominations is a good idea...kinda makes me think of "global domination". The fewer different voices there are...the easier it is to suppress and control them. This isn't a perfect world...and while denominations aren't "perfect" I think they're necessary...or healthy. I don't think that should keep us from working together...but I dunno...in my own church we're having problems with people giving up on or hiding our beliefs to "fit in" better with the world and other churches...and I think that's definitely the wrong attitude. It reminds me of the state of the church before they "hid their light"...right before the dark ages. Pretty sure we all know about that. It was one church then...didn't work out so well. And at the tower of Babel they all did have one purpose and one voice...they used it to defy God and that's why He split them up. So even there it might be an argument for different denominations. I have to say again. It's not a perfect world. Satan is having a hay-day here. Setting up a single beacon of light would make it a huge target for him. I think it's kinda in God's plan for there to be so many "beacons". It might even be like a "bible tournament" where followers of God filter their way through the denominations looking for more truth. Anyway....just thinking out loud. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 02:03 PM Mark, I think you are right about different denominations being healthy. I've been studying orthodox theology a bit lately, and although they seem very far from us protestants, as they are even more traditional than the Roman Catholics in many ways, they are also in other points very close to us. There is much to find and we hardly know anything of other denominations than just the name and some major points of their belief. So the main thing I know about Baptists is they don't baptise babies like we do. But other than that I'd have to look up the differences to my branch... they certainly have their points as we have ours, though we will not always accept everything our brothers and sisters say. That is also why I feel a sting when reading about Catholics and Orthodox Christians not being called Christians. Yesterday I ran across a homepage that listed unreached peoples, among which they listed the Chaldeans of the middle East. The Chaldeans are defined by their being Christian. if they change their religion to islam down there, they are considered either arabic or turkish, depending on the coutry they live in. The site stated that this people was not reached with the gospel. Truth is: They knew about the gospel about 500 years earlier than central and norhtern Europe, they've spread Christianity to China, India and the Indonesian islands before European Christianity was even close to leave its own continent to spread the faith along with blood and tears in the time of colonialism... I think we need different denominations, to get other insights to God, to have somebody to actually discuss and argue with, rather than all nodding to what the preacher says... I'd say yes, make a fellowship with people that are similar in their beliefs to you, but do not refuse to speak with really strange denominations. We can only win a better understanding of God, or give the others a better understanding. Of course we are to be careful not to be decieved, but this will happen if we have contact with other branches or not, I have a feeling getting off the path happens easier the smaller the group and the more locked up towards others... God bless you De Benny Post Reply
View Profile History	About church... Posted : 19 Apr, 2010 10:35 PM Garrett, You should read, "So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore" You can get it at Amazon. It's very good. Thunder Post Reply

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