I'm not sure if you're just venting here or if you have a question, but I have a question or 2 on something you said: "We have the thinly disguised population experts, who openly advocate abortion, Euthanasia, birth control and favoring of homosexuals, because they are unable to 'be fruitful and multiply'."
1. Are you saying that you're against birth control? If so, what is your Biblical support of this idea?
2. What do you mean by being unable to be fruitful and multiply? Are you referring just to homosexuals here? Or a general unwillingness to be fruitful and multiple? Or, are you saying that the "population experts" are infertile and therefore trying to make everyone else see the "benefits" of being childless also??
You are mixing your own, rather limited and sometimes even dead wrong, perceptions of the world with your, also limited and even more often dead wrong denominational teachings.
The result of all this twisted thinking is your post.
In Europe we have social welfare programs, not to be confused with socialist welfare programs. We, as a people, think it normal that people who have less money than we do, still have access to the same medical care level as we do.
In the Netherlands, euthanasia is not simply putting elderly people to death.
Euthanasia in Holland is a possibility (not necessity) for people severely suffering off extreme and uncontrolable pain and incureable disease, to stop the medical treatment in order to die a death which is consequence of their disease. There is nobody in my country who is simply plugged out and age has nothing to do with it. It is a very carefully acompanied process where the wishes of the patient are being put central, rather than the medical staff or family. Under no circumstances these kind of decisions can be taken when patients are in coma or otherwise incapable of expressing their explicit wishes. Once again a patient must have constant extreme pain, beyond the human bearable extent,and also the disease he is suffering of must be without no cure.
So simply stating that elderly people are put to death through euthansia in the Netherlands is something you might not wanna scream out in public without consulting a good lawyer.
Secondly, moslims are not looked upon in Europe the same way as they are looked upon and treated in the USA. And muslims are not living off european social welfare programs. They work and contribute to the country�s welfare just as anyone else. There are tremendous problems with fanatic religious muslim groups though but they certainly do not represent all the muslims.
I do not understand where you get the idea that in Europe people refuse to have children but compared to all the other rubbish you put on your post, I do not even want to know.
God wants us to fill the earth as you so delicately state. I vaguely find something like that in Gen1:28. Show me, dear James, where YHWH is excluding the muslims and communists from this "commandment" and simply was referring to people with your kind of beliefs.
Well I do not really want to get into details here. I suggest you wash your mouth before spreading your limited views on Europe and muslims. It is fine if you live and die with you views but I think it is proposterous that you dare include the holy Will of YHWH in it.
It was a nice post though. I will have my daughter paste it and take it to her school as they are making a project of misinterpretations of Genesis 1.
Thank you for you collaboration, I think no newspaper or website could have done it any better.
James I think your views are extreme. I agree that there are many governments that have killed hundreds of thousands but to think that this idea runs rampant is a little over the top. The reason for much of the genecide in the world is due to the theory of Evolution that was put forth by Darwin. We are no longer a world of superior beings but just another kind of animal and therefore as expendable as animals are. we can be slaughtered to increase the likelihood of survival of the fittest as was the thinking of Hitler and others or we are expendable because we are simply inferior in our mentality or social skills.
This thinking was not something that was new just because of Darwin but it certainly changed the minds of many who are no and have been the leaders of our nations. You think that Christians are being disobedient because they do not propagate? What about the fact that Christians have slaughtered so many people including their own? What about the Crusades, the persecution of the Inquisition that lasted over 500 years and the killing of Sabbath keepers? What good does it do to be obedient to propagation and then kill innocent people because they are ignorant or because their religion is different?
Which is the greater sin . . . the world that kills it's own because it is evil or the Christians that kill their own and the world's because they are stupid and disobedient?
Pro 27:3 A stone is heavy, and the sand weighty; but a fool's wrath is heavier than them both.
1. Are you saying that you're against birth control? If so, what is your Biblical support of this idea?
James replies:
No. I am Protestant (reformed). Only the Papists have the position that Birth control is morally wrong.
Pixi continues:
2. What do you mean by being unable to be fruitful and multiply? Are you referring just to homosexuals here? Or a general unwillingness to be fruitful and multiple? Or, are you saying that the "population experts" are infertile and therefore trying to make everyone else see the "benefits" of being childless also??
James replies:
Yes, I was just referring to Homosexuals. You see, if you see mankind as the problem, then less mankind is what you want, and you get zero offspring from sodomites, so they are preferred by those who want less human beings on Earth.
I do understand that you have like many Americans problems to see differences between communism, socialism and a social system. We in Europe do have a social system that cares for the sick and poor and lets everybody bear a part of it, dependent on their income and how much they can bear in relation to others.
I know this might sound like anarchy and unjust to some people from turbo-capitalist systems like the USA, but to me it still seems that caring for the week is more in accordance to God's will than letting them starve or die of untereated desease. And this independent of them being Muslim, Christians or followers of the church of Satan. But maybe it's only me and God does indeed love it to see the poor starve...???
You see I'm really upset with what you wrote, like Harriet seems to be as well (btw Harriet, as you speak of Holland, can I call the Netherlands now Holland too? I'm alwys told not to *grin*)...
James, just come on over here to Europe and see for yourself, that we are not doing so bad, compared to America, not all things are shiny here, but we are still alive. If one nation has less children and vanishes, so what? What is the use of nations surviving, there have been nations disappearing throughout history. If Germans vanish and Turkish people are the main population between Rhine and Oder, so what? A different culture, a different language. Where you live there have once also been other peoples living, now they are either small in numbers or vanished as well (though maybe not due to having no children)...
Yes, we do have laws that allow abortion, and we do have laws in some countries that allow switching off machines that keep people who will die anyway alive. Especially with the latter we have tough debates in Germany, at least much tougher than in the Netherlands or Switzerland, for historical reasons, we've done much wrong here once...
Talking about Abortion: What do you think will save more lives? Allowing abortions and having at least the mother survive or disallow it, have the mother go to some hardly trained person who will "take care of the problem" and have both - mother and baby die? I think many conservatives take things too easy by wanting all prohibited they don't like, but without caring about those affected.
You don't allow your children to use condoms or even don't tell them about it (or the pill), so they get pregnant. Then you don't allow them to abort (which is basically a good thing) and leave them back telling them how sinful they are. (Yes I know, I got myself in rage atm, but if someone crosses my way like this I need to speak my mind).
Wouldn't it be easier to try and understand the children? Tell them to better se condoms before get pregnant? I mean, of course it is not a good idea to have sex without being able to care for the result in the end, but if you can't hinder the sex maybe you can hinder your daughter from being pregnant...
Just my 2 cents to it.
Ah, and before I forget it: We might be having less children in Europe, but in the end the number would be about the same, as your children are sent off to fight wars your presidents lie you into. And for some reason you don't take the lies about starting wars and causing many of your sons and daughters dead not as seriously as when another president lies about having had sex with a certain individual, which causes no one dead and should be something between the people involved, their wives/husbands and God, talking about being decent and lieaving sexuality in the private sphere...
And those of your children who don't die in the streets of Iraq die in the streets of the USA in gang wars, right? So in the end, I wonder who fails more to fill the earth? Us "communists" or you democratic, freedom-loving patriots of God's own country?
I have to apologize to all who might take offense from this, I do not mean to talk bad of your nation. But I cannot just take it hearing so much wrong things called facts about my home, and so much misconception of us while not seeing the own mess. Not everything is well in Europe, right, but we are not children of hell. As well as there are problems in the USA as well, and you guys aren't hell's children either. I hope you can understand me at least a bit.
God = Life. therefore those who hate Life love death.
What is your motive for the paragraphs that you have wrote? are they for Godly edifying? anyway, i pray that God ministers to your heart concerning this post, and that he uses it for his will... in Jesus name...amen.
I think you are even more upset than me my dear brother in Christ. The Netherlands and Holland. Both sound like music to me....:applause:
And as to abortion, I would like to add that the only people who are actually using the Dutch abortion facilities are FOREIGNERS. Including americans who have their mistrisses brought inn by plane to have them taken care off while they themselves enjoy a visit to the tulips!
Actually in Holland we are considering to shut down the clinics as hardly any Dutch people are in it and we are bored and fed up with doing other countries� dirty work and on top of that, being called names for it.
And one more thing about the welfare programs in Europe. European people have voted on that. All those programms have been implemented in a democratic way. We are not facists, nor communists nor socialists. We are democracies. Our social security system provides for the less fortunate and those who by deficiency cannot provide in their own living. And frankly speaking I do not see any harm in that.
Please read General Georges Sada's book that was published in 2006. Saddam's Secrets: How an Iraqi General Defied And Survived Saddam Hussein, with the tagline "An insider exposes plans to destroy Israel, hide WMDs and control the Arab world."
He is a credible authority, being the second in command of Saddam Hussein's airforce.
Here's a link to his wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Sada
I have sat in a lecture given by Georges Sada and have an autographed copy of his book as well as CDs of other lectures he has given. George Bush did not lie. Saddam Hussein did have WMD and tested them on their own people. They had not only nuclear but also biochemical weaponry. They were hidden in Syria.
Side note: Isn't it interesting that one unfilled prophesy in the bible is that Damascus in one day will be leveled? Related? Only God knows for certain.
Georges Sada is a very interesting man and has many stories to tell of how God spared his life during those years. He is a Christian and believes that God had him in the place of authority at the time for a higher purpose. Please, please read his book. You will enjoy it.
The motive was that I don't like to be called names, just like you don't. Please don't take offense from it. As Harriet wrote, I was really upset when reading James's posting. There are things that go wrong in Europe, maybe. And there are things that go wrong in the states, maybe. Why is it people always point at others?
Harriet, I know the Netherlands have been very popular in Germany for offering abortion, as this has been illegal till the early 90ies here. The same is true for your coffee shops even today...
@Debbie:
I've written you a private message on Sada.
Please friends, don't take my posting as an offense. Read James's posting, read mine, see how I try to mirror in order tzo show how things come around this side of the Atlantic ocean.
Sorry folks abortion is wrong no matter how you justify it!And Americans dont except socalism in any form,we are in the middle of a great divide in this country because our current president is a hardcore socalist and is trying to transform this country into a euro-socalist country,no offense,but most americans like our freedom,our founders wanted as little government as possible and most of us agree!as far as wars go,its been the united states thats saved the world from dictators and tryaniccal leaders in the recent past so dont even go there....I guess you would be happy if Sadaam Husein was still putting people in meat grinders!Stop listening to the left,They are for big government socalism,we dont except that over here!political correctness will be your demise so be careful.
