Author Thread: can I lose my salvation?
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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 05:33 AM

THE PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS OR THE SECURITY OF THE BELIEVERS.



The Elect are not only redeemed by Christ and renewed by the Spirit;

they are also KEPT in faith by the almighty power of God. All those

who are spiritually united to Christ through regeneration are

eternally secure in Him. NOTHING can separate them from the eternal

and unchangeable love of God. They have been predestined unto

eternal glory and are therefore assured of heaven.

The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints does not maintain that

all who PROFESS the Christian faith are certain of heaven. It is

SAINTS--those who are set apart by the Spirit--who PERSEVERE to the

end. It is BELIEVERS--those who are given true, living faith in

Christ--who are SECURE and safe in Him. Many who profess to believe

fall away, but they do not fall from grace for they were never in

grace. True believers do fall into temptations, and they do commit

grievous sins, but these sins do not cause them to lose their

salvation or separate them from Christ.

This doctrine does not stand alone but is a necessary part of the The doctrines of Election and

Irresistible grace logically imply certain salvation of those who

receive these blessings. If God has chosen men absolutely and

unconditionally to eternal life, and if His Spirit effectively

applies to them the benefits of redemption, the inescapable conclusion

is that these persons shall be saved.



The following verses show that God's people are given ETERNAL LIFE

the moment they believe. They are KEPT BY GOD'S POWER through faith

and NOTHING CAN SEPARATE THEM FROM HIS LOVE. They have been SEALED

with the Holy Spirit who has been given as the GUARANTEE of their

salvation, and they are thus assured of an eternal inheritance.



Isaiah 43:1-3: But now thus says the Lord, he who created you, O

Jacob, he formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you:

I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the

waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not

overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,

and the flame shall not consume you. For I am the Lord your God, the

Holy One of Israel, your Savior

Isaiah 54:10: "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed

but my steadfast love shall not depart from you, and my covenant of

peace shall not be removed, says the Lord, who has compassion on you."



Matthew 18:12-14: "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep,

and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on

the hills and go in search of the one that went astray? And if he

finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the

ninety-nine that never went astray. So it is not the will of my

Father who is in heaven that ONE of these little ones SHOULD PERISH."



John 3:36: He who believes in the Son HAS ETERNAL LIFE....

John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,

that whoever believes in him SHOULD NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE.

John 5:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and

believes him who sent me HAS ETERNAL LIFE; he does NOT COME INTO

JUDGMENT, but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE."

John 6:35-40: Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who

comes to me shall NOT HUNGER, and he who believes in me shall NEVER

THIRST. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not

believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me; and HIM WHO

COMES TO ME I WILL NOT CAST OUT. For I have come down from heaven,

not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is

the will of him who sent me, that I should LOSE NOTHING of all that

he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the

will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him

should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."



John 6:47: Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes HAS ETERNAL

LIFE.



John 10:27-30: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they

follow me; and I give them ETERNAL LIFE, and THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH,

and NO ONE SHALL SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. My Father, who has given

them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them

out of the Fathers' hand. I and the Father are one."



See also: John 17:11,12,15



Romans 5:8-10: But God shows his love for us in that while we were

yet sinners Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we are NOW

JUSTIFIED by His blood, MUCH MORE SHALL WE BE SAVED by Him FROM THE

WRATH OF GOD. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God

by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall

we be SAVED BY HIS LIFE.



Romans 8:1: There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION for those who are

in Christ Jesus.



Romans 8:29,30: For those he FOREKNEW he also PREDESTINED to be

conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the

first-born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined he also

CALLED; and those whom he called he also JUSTIFIED; and those whom he

justified he also GLORIFIED.



Romans 8:35-39: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall

tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or

peril, or sword? AS it is written, "For thy sake we are being killed

all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." NO,

in all these things we are MORE THAN CONQUERORS THROUGH HIM who oved

us. For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angles, nor

principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,

nor height, nor depth, NOR ANYTHING ELSE IN ALL CREATION, WILL BE

ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.



1 Corinthians 1:7-9: ...so that you are not lacking in any spiritual

gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ; who

will SUSTAIN YOU TO THE END, GUILTLESS in the day of our Lord Jesus

Christ. GOD IS FAITHFUL, by whom you were called into the fellowship

of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.



1 Corinthians 10:13: No temptation has overtaken you that is not

common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted

BEYOND YOUR STRENGTH, but with the temptation will also provide the

way of escape, that you may be ABLE to endure it.





There are so many scriptures to support this!

see also:

2 Corinthians 4:14,17

Ephesians 1:5,13,14

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you

were SEALED for the day of redemption



Colossians 3:3,4

1 Thessalonians 5:23,24

2 Timothy 4:18

Hebrews 9:12,15

Hebrews 10:14: For by a single offering he has PERFECTED FOR ALL

TIME those who are SANCTIFIED.



Hebrews 12:28

1 Peter 1:3-5

1 John 2:19,25

1 John 5:4,11-13,20



Jude 1: To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and

KEPT for Jesus Christ.



At the end of every church service, my pastor comes out from behind

the podium and holds up his hand and says:



(Jude 24,25) Now to him who is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING and to

present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with

rejoicing, to the only God, our savior through Jesus Christ our Lord,

be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now

and forever. Amen







In Christ,



Steve

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DontHitThatMark

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 09:32 AM

Paul warned the Gentiles that God would cut them off if they didn't believe. The point being...yes, if you are in Christ you will be saved....but also yes, if you continue in willing sin/unbelief God will cut you off...cut you out of Christ...and you will lose your salvation. "Oh, but they weren't really saved in the first place"....aaaand POOF! There goes your blessed assurance.





:nahnah::nahnah:

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 01:11 PM

Don'thitthatMark, one little statement you made is in contradiction to being saved by faith. You stated, "if you continue in willing sin/unbelief God will cut you off"



If you truly believe that where to you find that in God's word for that is in complete contradiction to all the scriptures Steve gave explaining the assurance of the believer. If it was true that God would cut off a true believer when he willfully sinned then no one would ever make it to heaven. Christ died for sinners and not for those who don't sin as if there was such a thing. We all willfully sin every day one way or the other and if you think otherwise then you are deceiving yourself.



1 John 1:8 �If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 �If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 �If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.



When we confess our sins it is not to keep our salvation but its admitting our wrong and God will not chastise us if we judge ourselves and then our fellowship is restored. Sin separates us in fellowship but does not cause us to loose salvation just as the above scriptures tell us.



1 Corinthians 11:31 �For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 �But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.



I hope that will help you, donthitthatmak.



Tomlane

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 06:46 PM

dear hitman,

your words here

if you continue in willing sin/unbelief God will cut you off...cut you out of Christ...and you will lose your salvation.



mine here

i have to agree and disagree with that statement.. i disagree that sin is the cause to loose ones salvation..unless perhaps its blasphayming the HOLY SPIRIT.... as its the only sin that will not be forgiven.. as it is a sign of unbelief and lost faith or no faith at all.

the good LORD knows we are none of us perfect and able to not sin. least i havent heard of or met this person yet if they exist hehe.. .. only JESUS was that perfect man here on earth..



yet i agree with you in that it is unbelief that could possibly make one loose their salvation. as i believe that since belief and faith in JESUS CHRIST and repentance of sins is how one gets saved to begin with.. then only by doing the exact opposite do i believe could one loose their salvation.. i mean i believe you can only loose it if you loose belief and your faith in HIM. just the opposite of how you got saved to begin with..



p.s. i also believe one should be baptized as soon as one can after salvation..

ole cattle

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 08:13 PM

Cattleman, Eph. 4:5 says there is only one baptims then in another place it says its an operation of God and that its spiritual.



Tomlane

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 22 Oct, 2009 10:59 PM

dear tom ,,,, were you refering to this verse here?



1 corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.



baptism by water is still important to me..



this explains it a little better than i could prolly.. this is from my bible study..



Christians become members of this body by baptism: they are baptized into one body. The outward rite is of divine institution, significant of the new birth, called therefore the washing of regeneration, Titus. 3:5. But it is by the Spirit, by the renewing of the Holy Ghost, that we are made members of Christ's body. It is the Spirit's operation, signified by the outward administration, that makes us members. And by communion at the other ordinance we are sustained; but then it is not merely by drinking the wine, but by drinking into one Spirit. The outward administration is a means appointed of God for our participation in this great benefit; but it is baptism by the Spirit, it is internal renovation and drinking into one Spirit, partaking of his sanctifying influence from time to time, that makes us true members of Christ's body, and maintains our union with him. Being animated by one Spirit makes Christians one body. Note, All who have the spirit of Christ, without difference, are the members of Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, bond or free; and none but such. And all the members of Christ make up one body; the members many, but the body one. They are one body, because they have one principle of life; all are quickened and animated by the same Spirit.



ole cattle

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 06:14 AM

Hi Cattleman, you stated, "1 corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.







1 corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.







baptism by water is still important to me..







this explains it a little better than i could prolly.. this is from my bible study..







Christians become members of this body by baptism: they are baptized into one body. The outward rite is of divine institution, significant of the new birth, called therefore the washing of regeneration, Titus. 3:5. But it is by the Spirit, by the renewing of the Holy Ghost, that we are made members of Christ's body. It is the Spirit's operation, signified by the outward administration, that makes us members. And by communion at the other ordinance we are sustained; but then it is not merely by drinking the wine, but by drinking into one Spirit. The outward administration is a means appointed of God for our participation in this great benefit; but it is baptism by the Spirit, it is internal renovation and drinking into one Spirit, partaking of his sanctifying influence from time to time, that makes us true members of Christ's body, and maintains our union with him. Being animated by one Spirit makes Christians one body. Note, All who have the spirit of Christ, without difference, are the members of Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, bond or free; and none but such. And all the members of Christ make up one body; the members many, but the body one. They are one body, because they have one principle of life; all are quickened and animated by the same Spirit."



I'll have to reply to each statement you made as that all are in relation to what you believe in regards to water baptism. you stated, "baptism by water is still important to me."



So I'll start my reply from that statement. The only water baptism I have found in scripture is the ceremonial baptism of repentance that John the Baptist used to herald the coming of their Jewish Messiah. This was an ordinance that publicly displayed belief the Messiah was at hand or soon coming. It has nothing to do with salvation. Even John knew Christ would only baptize with fire and spirit.



Matthew 3:11 �I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Christ was water baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Christ did that for you and for me so that we can have rest daily as Christ is our Sabbath. We have the real thing when we are in Christ. The law was completed. We are not to keep the law of ordinances as they have been abolished. here is the reason why. They were shadows and a physical type of Christ but not the real thing.



Romans 3:27 �Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 �Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.



The law contained in ordinances was abolished so why would you want to keep a Jewish ordinance that no longer exists?



Ephesians 2:14 ��For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 �Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



The explanation you gave was a very beautiful description of spiritual baptism. Not once is water mentioned.



In your study it states: "Titus. 3:5. But it is by the Spirit, by the renewing of the Holy Ghost, that we are made members of Christ's body. It is the Spirit's operation, signified by the outward administration, that makes us members."



That is a perfect description of spiritual baptism. Ephs. 4:5 tell us there is only one baptism; one that is accomplished by God alone. Here is the verse for that spiritual operation.



Colossians 2:12 �Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13 ��And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 �Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;



Here is more proof that we worship Christ only in the spirit only.



Philippians 3:3 �For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.



Please notice, it says we worship God in spirit and we do not have confidence in the flesh. Meaning we worship god spiritually. Not only that, the moment we are born again from God we are made a new creation that is neither Jew nor Gentile. You can't see the new creation, but you experience the effects of it. Peace, Joy, love, patience all the fruits of the spirit that are listed in Gal. chapter five. God wants us to worship him the same way.



When God dealt with Israel as a nation, their worship was of a physical nature, physical temple, physical blessings and curses.



As a new creation that has no earthly nationality but Jew and Gentile are a new creation that is spiritual and our citizenship is in heaven.



2 Corinthians 5:17 �Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.



Ephesians 2:15 �Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;



More proof, today God sees the believers body as His holy temple, not one made with stone or wood. That was one reason the temple was torn down was to show us things had changed. Notice in 2 Corinthians it says old things have passed away {like water baptism, Sabbath keeping} we have peace with God when we obey the law of faith and just believe.



Romans 3:27 �Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 �Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.



All that we need to please God is not found in ordinances now, but rather we please God by just believing only.



Romans 10:9 �That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.



You can read the whole chapter of Romans 10 and you won't find one drop of water in it. The reason being, Christ has done it all for us.



People have the misconception that they show forth Christ when they are water baptized, when in reality they are showing their disbelief for what Christ has done for them for believers walk and live by faith only.



Romans 3:28 �Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.



This next verse says much when you give it some thought.



Romans 9:32 �Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;



Those that want to please God with their flesh {such as water baptism} focus on the law and on one particular ordinance, that is water baptism, thus since they get their eyes off of faith they have stumbled at the stumbling stone that is Christ for instead of putting all their faith in Christ and His word rightly dividing it, they put their focus on what they do by observing an ordinance that has been nailed to the cross. {Col. 2:12-17} also lets read Col. 2:20-23.



Colossians 2:20 �Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 �(Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 �Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

23 �Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.



More proof to show you that God is dealing with us only on the spiritual realm.



1 Corinthians 6:19 �What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 �For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.



Please notice our bodies are now God's temple things have changed. In verse 20 where it refers to glorifying God with our bodies has nothing to do with water baptism or of any other physical ordinance. Verse18 gives us the answer.



1 Corinthians 6:18 �Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.



I sure hope that clears up a few things for you Cattleman. I also realize when one is taught one thing as being God's truth, and someone like me comes along and explains just the opposite that can rattle anyone's cage. However if you will give careful study and ask the Lord to convict you of his wonderful liberating truths, the Lord will be faithful and show you that spiritual worship puts all of us in His will and we won't be stumbling at the stumbling block.



Tomlane

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 07:44 AM

baptism of water is an outward sign of our faith.

keep it simple for you guys.

Jesus on the day of pentacost said but I baptize you with the holy spirit.Fire came out and they went outside and spoke in many tongues.

2 different baptisms my friends.

I speak in tongues ok.If it is not of god then it can not be done.

It is a gift that god hands out freely.Some are given different gifts.

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Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 08:03 AM

dgrimater, you stated, "baptism of water is an outward sign of our faith.



keep it simple for you guys.



Jesus on the day of pentacost said but I baptize you with the holy spirit.Fire came out and they went outside and spoke in many tongues.



2 different baptisms my friends.



I speak in tongues ok.If it is not of god then it can not be done.



It is a gift that god hands out freely.Some are given different gifts."



Yes lets keep it simple, so where do you find in scripture where it says, baptism of water is an outward sign of your faith?



I've read the scriptures for years and have never read that?



If its not found within the word, then I would think your religion is making up its own doctrine, what to you think dgrimater? What other conclusion could I come to?



Tongues of fire is not fire baptism. The word baptism according to Strong's concordance means to put into. No one has ever been put into tongues of fire. Fire baptism means put into fire. You could associate that with the smoke from the bottomless pit that is yet to come for unbelievers when they are caste or put into it.



Hope that helps you some.



Tomlane

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 09:26 AM

dear tom, maybe this will help you some more..



acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



from my bible study

Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ; that is, "firmly believe the doctrine of Christ, and submit to his grace and government; and make an open solemn profession of this, and come under an engagement to abide by it, by submitting to the ordinance of baptism; be proselyted to Christ and to his holy religion, and renounce your infidelity.'' They must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. They did believe in the Father and the Holy Ghost speaking by the prophets; but they must also believe in the name of Jesus, that he is the Christ, the Messias promised to the fathers. "Take Jesus for your king, and by baptism swear allegiance to him; take him for your prophet, and hear him; take him for your priest, to make atonement for you,'' which seems peculiarly intended here; for they must be baptized in his name for the remission of sins upon the score of his righteousness. (3.) This is pressed upon each particular person: Every one of you. "Even those of you that have been the greatest sinners, if they repent and believe, are welcome to be baptized; and those who think they have been the greatest saints have yet need to repent, and believe, and be baptized. There is grace enough in Christ for every one of you, be you ever so many, and grace suited to the case of every one. Israel of old were baptized unto Moses in the camp, the whole body of the Israelites together, when they passed through the cloud and the sea (1 Co. 10:1, 2), for the covenant of peculiarity was national; but now every one of you distinctly must be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and transact for himself in this great affair.'' See Col. 1:28.



2. He gives them encouragement to take this course:-(1.) "It shall be for the remission of sins. Repent of your sin, and it shall not be your ruin; be baptized into the faith of Christ, and in truth you shall be justified, which you could never be by the law of Moses. Aim at this, and depend upon Christ for it, and this you shall have. As the cup in the Lord's supper is the New Testament in the blood of Christ for the remission of sins, so baptism is in the name of Christ for the remission of sins. Be washed, and you shall be washed.'' (2.) "You shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost as well as we; for it is designed for a general blessing: some of you shall receive these external gifts, and each of you, if you be sincere in your faith and repentance, shall receive his internal graces and comforts, shall be sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.'' Note, All that receive the remission of sins receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. All that are justified are sanctified.



ole cattle

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can I lose my salvation?
Posted : 23 Oct, 2009 10:33 AM

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ReplyReply AllMove... Flag this messageRefuting Baptismal Regeneration..............Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:42 PMFrom: "James Dye" View contact detailsTo: "Steve" A Brief Rebuttal of Baptismal Regeneration







by James White







"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed...but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect." So wrote the Apostle Peter to the early Christians (1 Peter 1:18-19). He, as all the other Apostles, believed that we are redeemed, cleansed, forgiven, in the blood of Jesus Christ. Yet, there are many today who would replace the blood of Christ with the water of a baptistery. They teach that we are regenerated, made alive, cleansed, by water baptism. Some insist that it must be baptism by immersion; others say that sprinkling accomplishes the same thing. In either case, the work of Jesus Christ on the cross cannot be said to be finished and efficacious until man does something--in this case, adds his work of baptism to the work of God in Christ. Baptism is said to be the means of salvation, the method by which Christ's work at Calvary is taken from the merely theoretical to the actual.



It is not our intention to engage in a lengthy discussion of the topic of baptismal regeneration in this article. Such would require far more space than we have available at this time! Instead, we wish to point out a basic, foundational error of the position taken by such groups as the Church of Christ and the Mormon Church--both have some doctrine of baptismal regeneration. Then, we will briefly respond to a couple of the more often used proof-texts provided by proponents of baptismal regeneration. We realize that there is a whole area of discussion that we are leaving to the side by taking this approach, that being the sacramental concept of regeneration in infant baptism. This view is found in Roman Catholicism (indeed, baptism is the original means of justification in Roman theology) and in various of the sacramentally-oriented Protestant churches.



Underlying the idea that man, by an action such as baptism, can bring about his own regeneration, is the rejection of the Biblical teaching of sin, and most especially, the truth that sin enslaves man, debilitates man, brings spiritual death to man. The Lord Jesus spoke clearly of this truth:



To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin" (John 8:31-34).



Man in sin must be freed from slavery to sin. He cannot free Himself, but must be freed by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. This is an offensive truth to the unregenerate man, as the response from these would-be self-made disciples indicates (8:41, 48). Men do not like to hear that they are, in fact, totally dependent upon God's grace for salvation--they do not want to know that they are incapable of saving themselves, or even of coming unto Christ for salvation, outside of God's gracious drawing (John 6:44). But as the Lord Himself said, we are slaves to sin. Slaves must be freed.



Paul describes the lost man's condition with the graphic language of death. "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins" he tells the Ephesians (2:1). How can a dead man be made alive? Only by the work of God, just as he told the Colossians, "When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ" (Colossians 2:13). This deadness has tremendous results according to the inspired Apostle. First, it means that there is no man who, in and of himself, seeks after God: "There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God" (Romans 3:11). Likewise, there is no man who understands the things of God unless he is first changed from being "natural" or "carnal" to "spiritual": "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). Paul says that when men are alienated from God, they are His enemies in their minds (Colossians 1:21). These are strong words, and they well describe the hatred and enmity that exists in the heart of the man who continues to live in his rebellion against God. What is even more striking is Paul's absolute belief that this condition cannot be changed by man--not only is it not the natural man's desire to be at peace with the Holy One, but it is beyond his capacity to do so, even if he were so inclined. Note Paul's words in Romans 8:5-8:



For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.



Those who hold to baptismal regeneration would have us to believe that one passes from being a "natural man" to a "spiritual man" through baptism; yet, from whence does this desire to be baptized come? Is God not pleased when we are baptized? Of course. Yet, Paul said that the one who is still fleshly cannot please God. If such a person is the enemy of God, enslaved to sin, how is it that he is able to do such a spiritual and pleasing thing as to desire to be baptized? Obviously, this is impossible. Baptism signifies our death to the old way of life and our resurrection to new life in Christ, as Paul uses it in Romans 6:1-4. Unless we have died to sin, and been raised with Christ in reality prior to our baptism, the symbol becomes meaningless. So we see that the position that posits baptism as the means of regeneration and forgiveness ignores the most basic teachings of Scripture regarding man's inability. In taking the position they do, the baptismal regenerationists not only make man capable of things he is not, but they reduce God's grace to a mere aid, and make the death of Christ a theory that is dependent upon man's act of obedience, rather than the finished and effective work that the Bible teaches it to be (Hebrews 10:10-14).



When we keep in mind the foundational truth that man is unable to save himself, but that salvation is the work of God, we are able to understand why it is said that we are justified by God's grace (Titus 3:7), justified by the blood of Christ (Romans 5:9), and justified by faith. Grace, and the blood of Christ, are both things that are beyond man's ability to manipulate; and faith, if it is true, saving faith, is the gift of God as well. Hence, we are justified by God's action, not by any action of our own. Never is it said that we are justified by baptism.



In light of the fact that any review of the central passages of the New Testament that directly deal with how a man is made right with God will lead us to recognize our own inability and the great ability of our God to save, what is to be said concerning those passages, drawn from one context or another, that seem to indicate that we are saved or forgiven by baptism? First, we must point out that it is common for some to confuse the *importance* of baptism with the idea of the *necessity* of baptism. Indeed, often the fact that the New Testament takes for granted that all believers will be baptized as a profession of their faith is taken to mean that baptism is *how* they became believers in the first place! We confess baptism to be vitally important--the Scriptures are clear in this. That Paul can use baptism is a sign and symbol of our spiritual union with Christ (Romans 6:1-4) shows that it is his assumption that all believers will be obedient in baptism. We do not, by asserting the proper understanding of baptism, in any way denigrate it as an ordinance given by Christ to His Church. But just as the holy Law of God was misused by the Pharisees in Jerusalem, and the Judaizers in Galatia, so baptism has been misused by modern proponents of the works-oriented system of baptismal regeneration. Therefore, just as Paul often asserted his great respect for and love of the law of God while asserting its true nature and purpose, so we, too, assert our great respect for Christian baptism while asserting its proper place in God's work of salvation and sanctification. We shall center our attention on three passages of Scripture that are often placed before us as "clear testimony" to the concept of baptismal regeneration. These passages are Acts 2:38, 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21.



Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call" (Acts 2:38-39, NIV).



This is probably the most oft-quoted passage in the great baptism debate. Yet, when we read verse 39, we hear again the same concept that we saw above, which Peter himself will assert at a later date (1 Peter 1:2), and that will reappear in the Acts narrative, too (Acts 13:48)--salvation comes through the work of God's elective choice, not the actions or plans of men. Baptism does nothing for those who are not called of God. But, one might say, what if one is called of God? Does this passage then not say that baptism is for the remission of sins?



A tremendously large number of interpretations have been set forth on this passage over the years. We believe the simplest and most consistent manner of approach is to ask a question that is frequently not asked at all: we here have a short snippet of what was obviously a longer sermon by Peter. Does Peter elsewhere tell us, in plain language, how our sins are remitted, how we are cleansed from our burden of guilt? Certainly! We began our article with the quotation of 1 Peter 1:18-19, where Peter directly teaches that we are cleansed by the blood of the spotless Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. Do we then have sufficient basis to identify the waters of baptism with the blood of Christ? Surely not. Sins are remitted through our participation in the death of Jesus Christ--it is by the "one time offering" of Jesus Christ that we are made whole (Hebrews 10:10-14). What of baptism then? It is the symbol, the outward representation before men of what the Spirit of God has done in our hearts (Titus 3:5-7). Unless we have first had our sins remitted in the blood of Christ, the symbol of baptism is meaningless. But doesn't this passage say that baptism is for the remission of sins? Yes, but what does "for" mean? We feel that Dr. A. T. Robertson's comments from earlier this century are very meaningful:



This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology. In themselves the words can express aim or purpose for that use of "eis" does exist as in 1 Cor. 2:7....But then another usage exists which is just as good Greek as the use of "eis" for aim or purpose. It is seen in Matt. 10:41 in three examples "eis onoma prophetou, diakaiou, mathetou" where it cannot be purpose or aim, but rather the basis or ground, on the basis of the name of prophet, righteous man, disciple, because one is, etc. It is seen again in Matt. 12:41 about the preaching of Jonah....They repented because of (or at) the preaching of Jonah. The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koine generally (Robertson, Grammar, p. 592). One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, III:35-36).



The point being that one can (and we believe should, if one believes in the consistency of Scripture as a whole) understand Peter to be speaking of baptism on the grounds of the remission of sins that comes through belief in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43). But, someone will surely object, Peter himself said that "baptism saves us" in 1 Peter 3:21. Let's look at the passage in context:



For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who were disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.



This is one of the more difficult passages in Scripture, due to the reference to Christ's preaching to the "spirits in prison." It is not our purpose to enter into the controversy over this particular aspect of this passage at this time (one might find Dr. Kenneth Wuest's comments enlightening; see Wuest, Word Studies in the Greek New Testament II:92-109). Instead, we point out that foremost in Peter's mind, again, is the death of Christ as the sacrifice for sin. Men are brought to God, not by what they do, but what God has done in Christ Jesus (v. 18). Upon the heels of this he mentions God's act of judgment in the days of Noah. At that time eight souls were saved through water. Peter then says that this water "symbolizes" baptism (as the NIV translates the Greek term antitupon, literally, "antitype"). Baptism now saves us, Peter says--just as the water "saved" Noah and his family. But, of course, we know that Peter was not asserting that there was some salvific aspect to the flood waters themselves--God shut up the ark, and God saved Noah and his family. But the water is a symbol, Peter says, a symbol seen now in baptism. But is Peter dropping the symbolization so as to make baptism the means of salvation? Certainly not. Dr. Wuest has commented so well that we give his words at length:



Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word "counterpart." So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh." Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words "the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ," in that he believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.



What, then, of Acts 22:16? Here, Ananias, having confronted the blinded Saul, says, in context:



Then he said: "The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."



We again see the common theme of the calling and sovereignty of God in the context of this passage as well ("God...has chosen you"). Verse 16 presents us with a significant construction in the original language. The terms "arise" and "call" (anastas and epikalesamenos) are aorist participles; "be baptized" and "be cleansed" (baptisai and apolousai) are aorist imperatives. These terms form two sets--the first, "arise and be baptized," the second, "wash away your sins, calling upon the name of the Lord," or more literally, "wash away your sins, having called upon the name of the Lord." The remission of sins is effected by calling upon the name of the Lord in this passage--it is represented, as elsewhere, by baptism. One thing is for certain: given what we have seen previously of Paul's own theology of justification, he certainly did not interpret Ananias to be teaching any form of baptismal regeneration!



In conclusion, we must again insist that the Scriptures must be taken as a whole--when we find in the direct, clear statements of Scripture truths that are contradictory to assumptions based upon passing comments, we must take the clear statements over the assumptions. In the issue of salvation, we must take the clear statements of Scripture regarding the work of the Spirit of God in regenerating lost sinners seriously. By teaching baptismal regeneration, people do despite not only to the sovereignty of God and the finished work of Christ, but to the real purpose and meaning of baptism as well. While some like to refer to the evangelical doctrine of baptism as a "mere symbol," we respond by pointing out that an ordinance, given by Christ to His Church, in which the great and marvelous work of God in salvation is pictured for all to see is not properly described by the term "mere." Instead, Christian baptism must be understood as representing a true and inner reality--one that is brought about by the grace of God in a person's life. When we properly present baptism as it is presented in Scripture, we glorify God's grace and magnify His work of salvation in Jesus Christ.





In christ



Steve

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