Author	Thread: Law & Grace
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 09:50 AM Sorry to do this to you guys again. It's only about 25 minutes. Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRZPbZTBhk&feature=related Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIxB3a0--ec&feature=related Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sAAydLX2wU :peace::peace: Post Reply
Vlad View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 12:12 PM just 1 question: whether apostle Paul was saved by his faith? :rolleyes: Post Reply
View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 01:21 PM dear vlad, welcome to the forums. ole cattle Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 08:01 PM Well, I believe everyone is saved by faith... :peace::peace: Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 08:01 PM Well, saved by grace through faith. :peace::peace: Post Reply
Vlad View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 08:54 PM But Paul said: " I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY (1Co.9:27) he already was a believer, and even preacher BUT he was not saved and needed some ascetic activities for salvation Post Reply
Vlad View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 8 Oct, 2009 09:00 PM And cattleman2011, DontHitThatMark nice meeting you guys! ;) Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 9 Oct, 2009 07:46 AM Well, I'm of the opinion that you're only saved by grace if you're trying to walk like Jesus walked. If you're living in open sin, or if you're letting a private sin rule your life, then you aren't really saved. Jesus died not only to save us from our sin, but He died to give us power to overcome sin. I'm not saying we need to be perfect to get to heaven...but I am saying the pattern of our lives should be that we WANT to be perfect, that we're TRYING to be perfect. We have to hate our sinful flesh. Otherwise we are not really a new creature, and not really saved. We may fail...often...but that's what the grace of God is for. Jesus died once. It was enough to cover any sin anyone could ever commit. Did you watch the videos? :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 9 Oct, 2009 10:38 AM ahhh sounds pretty good mark,I do hate my sinful flesh,but I dont strive to hate it,or want to hate it,since my eyes have been opened,I just naturally hate it,but it sounds like we are converging,im nowhere near perfect though,and I dont expect to be anytime soon,I have noticed being able to resist sin more and more as time goes on though,and I expect this to continue,with me its like gods always there,I do beleive a true christian will confess his sins daily,I even recognize sin in myself that I may not have before.Its a process.I think where we differ is,I beleive if a truly saved individual turns his back on god purposely,he will not lose his salvation,but god will crush his life so bad that he will come back,if he didnt,then this is sin unto death,god just takes him out of the game altogether,no rewards,its like getting to heaven by the skin of your teeth,escaping through the fire!not the best case scenario, In Christ steven Post Reply
Vlad View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 10 Oct, 2009 12:51 AM Are you saved? - an Orthodox Christian answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAlCze3ZFjA&feature=related Post Reply
View Profile History	Law & Grace Posted : 12 Oct, 2009 10:03 PM Salvation comes by faith and faith alone not the law, but to understand this we first have to understand what the law is and then its roll in the believers life. The Torah consists of the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy � sometimes called the �Books of Moses.� In these books, we find �His� story of creation: the wondrous creation of the universe and of mankind; the establishment of a People and a Land set apart for all time to reveal the One True God to the World - His existence, His love, His ways. These books contain 613 commandments, however, these commandments were not given to the Israelites while in bondage as a means of redemption, - they were given to an already redeemed people as a guide of how to live as a redeemed people. (In fact the Hebraic meaning of Torah is �teaching unto life� - not �law� in our modern definition). The redemption of Israelites was unearned - God heard their cries in Egypt and rescued them because of their need and His compassion. He then set out to fashion them into a Holy Nation, a Kingdom of Priests, to show forth His glory. This has not changed in the New Covenant through Yeshua (Jesus). We receive salvation by grace alone - but once we have received this great gift, how then shall we live? 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that �All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.� As the New Testament had not yet been written, we can be certain that the Scripture in reference was the Old Testament. Also, Yeshua Himself declared, �Think not that I am come to destroy the Law (the Torah), or the Prophets; I am come not to destroy, but fulfill �(or bring fullness to, or rightly interpret). �For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the Law till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these commandments and shall teach men to do so, he shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven...� (Matt. 5:17-19) By Yeshua�s own words, we come to understand that the Law is not for salvation, but for learning and teaching for the redeemed to live a pleasing life unto God. He does not say that those who break the commandments and teach others to do so will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but that they will be least. There is something beneficial in learning the whole counsel of God! We also see that the Torah has not passed away as heaven and earth still remain. Some may argue that �if Yeshua fulfilled the Law, then we don�t have to!� However, that is not what the verse actually says in the original text. In the Greek, the word He uses is pleroo (play-ro'-o) which Strong�s concordance renders �to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full� as the most relevant definition. So where does all this confusion come from regarding law and grace, as if one nullifies the other? I think it is simply a tradition of misunderstanding. Grace is not the opposite of Law, or Torah. For God�s grace actually teaches us Law as we see in Titus 2:11,12: �For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly, in this present age.� Referring back to Romans 4, in the context of the verse quoted, Paul made it very clear that the realization of Abraham�s righteousness and the passing on of the promise was not because he was able to keep the Torah, but rather because of his faith, or trusting in God. In the author�s way, this issue is looked at from several angles, and this is the conclusion. �Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring�not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.� Romans 4:16 Another aspect to consider is that God�s enemies throughout history, as well as His future nemesis the antichrist, have the hallmark of being anti-Torah and outlawing the keeping of His Word. Therefore, I think it is not healthy to have antipathy toward God�s Torah, or any portion of His Word. The antichrist is called the �man of lawlessness.� We must assume that the �law� this antichrist is against is the Law of God, the Torah � I�m sure it�s not that he is known for breaking the speed limit! In a time of great deception and �gross darkness,� it may only be His Word that is the light for our path and the discernment to preserve against divers winds of doctrine that may deceive even the elect. Post Reply

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