Author Thread: Is Water Baptism for Today
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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 8 Sep, 2009 11:50 AM

Dear Reader, Ephesians 4:5 �One Lord, one faith, one baptism,



Many denominations teach two baptisms, water and spirit. Some denominations teach that water and spirit are two parts of one baptism. Is any of the above in your view correct? Or could there be another answer that would be agreement with all of God's word?



Tomlane

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bjenk762

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 8 Sep, 2009 12:42 PM

My personal belief is that it can be one in the same, but at the same time can be different. When you are baptized you are taking the next step in your life, becoming born again. In this case it is physicaly being baptized in the water, but your also baptizing your spirit, or your spirit being born again also. But I believe that you can be baptized in the spirit every day. For example, if you had a bad day at work, or it just seems like nothing is going right for you in life and your spirit is down. You can go hame and pray to God to baptize you in His spirit, or to let your spirit to be reborn. In this case your not physicaly being baptized in water but your spirit is.

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bjenk762

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 8 Sep, 2009 01:14 PM

OOPS, sorry misunderstood the question, thats why i don't need to read when I half asleep!

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 8 Sep, 2009 08:07 PM

Baptism is commanded by Jesus Christ. Matthew 28:19. Baptism is an outward sign of an inward work of grace. It represents what takes place in the soul of one who believes in Jesus Christ. Johns baptism, Mark 1:4 John did baptise in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Matthew 3: 2 & 6. Acts 19: 4. Water baptism has no power to save. Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. V,10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. V,17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Water baptism and the new birth are not the same. Water baptism is something man does. To be born again is an act of a soveregn God .John 3: 3-8.

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 8 Sep, 2009 08:44 PM

BAPTISM



Baptism is not just merely an act of obedience and it is a necessary element for our salvation. Jesus Himself said so.



John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother�s womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. NKJV





Jesus made in clear that there are two elements involved in this process for becoming "born AGAIN". I emphasize "AGAIN" because it is something that is done a second time. Some try to use the argument that Jesus is referring to an individuals first birth, hence the water is of the womb. The problem with that argument is that Jesus is talking about a man who has already been born and now saying that he has to be born a second time and in that second birth, there are TWO elements, water and the Spirit. Water is then obviously implying water Baptism. Because Jesus said this is a second birth precludes any possibility of any elements of the first birth being included in the SECOND birth.



Additional support for water baptism being a necessary element for salvation and that Jesus meant water baptism when speaking to Nicodemus is found in Mark 16:16 when He gave His marching orders for the Great Commission commanding water Baptism to be done for every believer.



Mark 16: 16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe[disbelieves] will be condemned. NKJV





Jesus made a positive statement by giving us assurance of our salvation in that we are saved if we first.....believe, which means have faith and second, that we are BAPTIZED. Again we see TWO elements listed and one of them is water Baptism. By Jesus using the conjunctive word "AND" (kai in Greek)clearly links baptism and faith as two necessary elements.



Now there are a few who will try and use the second part of the verse to override the first part. "but he who does not believe will be condemned.



They will say that since Jesus did not say he who is not baptized will be condemned or some similar wording implies that baptism is not necessary. That argument is simply not logical and is a violation of Hermeneutics. Who would want to get baptized if they didn't believe to begin with? The words Jesus used ..."does not believe" means "Disbelieved...someone who heard the Gospel and then rejected it. Who would go and line up to be baptized after they rejected the Gospel?



Now let's look at what I believe is one of the most important passages in the New Testament whereby we see a perfect example of the model for preaching the Gospel and giving the elements for salvation.



Peter while recently being filled with the Holy Spirit as well as the other Apostles, preached the very first sermon with the power of the Holy Spirit. This means that the Holy Spirit was speaking through him. He was preaching to a few thousand Jews who were the ones who previously were responsible for crucifying Jesus Christ. Look carefully on how Peter accused them of their sinful deed and then their response and then Peter's.



Acts 2: 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"





At this point Peter had nailed them hard and after they were convicted of their sin they asked Peter and the Apostles what they needed to do. It is obvious that at this point they had faith and believed that Jesus was the Christ whom they crucified but as we can see even with their true faith in Christ, they were still NOT saved as yet. Peter then responds.







38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ UNTO (for) the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."

41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

42 � And they continued steadfastly in the apostles� doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. NKJV



Now notice that Peter told them what they needed to do in order to be purged from their guilt of their sin and to receive forgiveness of their sin and receive the Holy Spirit.



First they needed to "Repent". Then he said the needed to be baptized in Jesus name and that is FOR the remission of sins. To be baptized in Jesus name means to be baptized in His authority. It is the same when we Baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Next in the passage we see what happens AFTER being baptized and that is to receive the Holy Spirit.



The Greek text conclusively demonstrates that the word "FOR" in this passage only has one meaning. The word "FOR" is better translated "UNTO". Both carry the same meaning. The word "FOR" or "eis" is a Greek "transitive preposition" and is used 1774 times in the New Testament and in every instance it means FOR or UNTO and NEVER does it mean "because of". If the word meant "because of", it would imply that remission of sins is due to a PRIOR act and that baptism played no part. Unfortunately for those who try to make that argument, the Greek does not support that conclusion or definition. A transitive preposition means that it has a forward progress to an object to a desired result. Baptism is FOR/UNTO the remission of sins.



The text of Peter's sermon states plainly that baptism is �for the remission of sins.� The Greek word translated �for� is the preposition, �eis.� It is extremely common in the New Testament, appearing some 1774 times.

�Eis� is a transitive preposition, meaning that progress is inherent in the meaning. It is most often translated �into� or �unto� in the KJV. The general sense is progression to a point reached. The inherent forward progress is always present when used with a transitive verb � a verb that implies motion, progression, or transition. The transitive force of �eis�is sometimes even apparent when used with intransitive verbs (state of being verbs) � which normally do not themselves imply progress, yet the transitive nature of "eis" overpowers the intransitive power of the verb (cf. Rom. 1:16)





Furthermore even Paul's own testimony concerning his own conversion makes it clear that baptism is an essential element for his salvation.



Acts 22: 12 "Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,

13 "came to me; and he stood and said to me, �Brother Saul, receive your sight.� And at that same hour I looked up at him.

14 "Then he said, �The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.

15 �For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.

16 �And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.� NKJV



Now let me make something perfectly clear. When a person gets baptized in water, it is not the water that saves you. Water just gets you wet. God is the one who saves us! Baptism is the occasion where God supernaturally "circumsizes your heart" and this is when the Holy Spirit comes into you.



Furthermore Baptism is not a work.



Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, NKJV



What is the "washing of Regenration? Water Baptism. Notice that it is God who saves us according to HIS mercy,..."THROUGH the washing of regeneration ...AND the renewing of the Holy Spirit". Notice these two main elements as before have been listed by Jesus in Mark 16:16 and John 3:3-5. "the washing of regeneration" is not the Holy Spirit as some try to claim. Paul separates Washing of Regeneration from the "renewing of the Holy spirt" but using the conjunctive word "and" or "kai" in Greek. This demonstrates that there are two separate events, but simulteanously. Let me make one point that is important concerning "washing of regeneration" or Baptismal Generation. Different Christian denominations have different meanings for this term. So you must be very careful and not broadstroke everyone the same way.



Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.



How can we be buried with Christ in Baptism unless we are Baptized?



13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. NKJV



(Of course verse 14 is demonstrating that the Mosaic Laws were completely done away with, but that is for another discussion.)



So I hope that it can be seen that Baptism is not just a mere act of obedience without having any affect towards salvation but that it is an essential element as the scriptures clearly indicate.



Blessings!

In Christ Jesus,

Walter

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 9 Sep, 2009 03:15 PM

HAHAHA

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inquizative

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 9 Sep, 2009 05:56 PM

Yes of course water baptism is for today. All christians were babtised after they became born again.

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 9 Sep, 2009 09:00 PM

No,.. Baptism occurs prior to salvation according to the scriptures. You are not Born Again unless you are Baptized after placing your faith in Christ.



Mark 16:16 He who believes.... AND IS BAPTIZED.... will be saved.



Notice that Jesus made Baptism an act that occurs prior to salvation and a necessary act. There is no escaping the grammar here.



Blessings!

Walter

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 01:44 PM

HERESY ALERT! Baptism does not save anyone.



"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." - Romans 10:13 (KJV)

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 09:09 PM

Legend,



You error greatly as no one said Baptism saves anyone. You made an assumption without knowing the facts. That is not very wise.



Please demonstrate to all of us the exegesis of Mark 16:16 and show me where I erred if at all. Let's just stick with this one little verse for now. Let's see if you can do this without personal bias.



By the way... from an Historical perspective....the Early Church Fathers were all on the same page regarding Baptism and had some very strong language against those who taught differently.



The Gnostics Pervert Baptism

"It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of �redemption� as there are teachers of these mystical opinions. And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith." (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Bk. I, ch xxi) This was the Disciple of Polycarp who was the disciple of John the Apostle.



Here are two quotes from Ignatius who was the personal Disciple of John the Apostle.



Ignatius appeals to Rom. 6:5

"Wherefore also, ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order that, by believing in His death, ye may by baptism be made partakers of His resurrection." (Ignatius, Epistle to the Trallians, II)



Baptism Unites us to Christ's Death (Rom. 6:5)

"For if there is one God of the universe, the Father of Christ, �of whom are all things;� and one Lord Jesus Christ, our [Lord], �by whom are all things;� and also one Holy Spirit, who wrought in Moses, and in the prophets and apostles; and also one baptism, which is administered that we should have fellowship with the death of the Lord; and also one elect Church; there ought likewise to be but one faith in respect to Christ. For �there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is through all, and in all.�" (Ignatius, Epistle to the Philippians, I)



These are samples of what was taught in the Early Church of the first 300 years some of whom were the direct disciples of the Apostle John.



Blessings!

Walter

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Is Water Baptism for Today
Posted : 10 Sep, 2009 10:10 PM

Baptism saves no one by itself, we're saved because of what Christ fulfilled on the cross. However Christ himself was baptized, so we would do well to follow in his example. I believe most people that become christian and read and live the bible are led to be baptized anyways.



Bottom line: Christ did it, you should too

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