Thread: Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Admin
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 05:14 PM
No, a Christian cannot achieve sinless perfection; that is, on this side of heaven. Though there are Christians who say they do not sin anymore, they are in error. In order to achieve a sinless state of perfection, the Christian’s motivations would have to be pure and perfect at all times because God looks at the condition of the heart as well as our actions. Consider the following verses.
Matthew 5:28, “but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.“
Matthew 22:37, “And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’”
Matthew 22:39, “‘The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’”
We see that Jesus taught that the intention of the heart is important to God. This is because God’s heart is perfect. He is holy which is why He says in 1 Peter 1:16, “Be holy, for I am holy.” God is the standard of holiness, and Jesus reveals the necessity of the perfect standard.
Can any Christian say that his heart is perfect and that he never falters? That he never looks upon a woman with impure thoughts? That he loves the Lord God with all of his heart, and that he loves his neighbor as himself, all with a perfect state of mind? The standard is absolute purity. None of us can claim that.
But there are those who say the Bible says we do not sin.
1 John 3:6, “No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.”
1 John 3:9, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”
1 John 5:18, “We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”
The Bible is not saying that we don’t sin. Those verses in 1 John are talking about abiding in sin. That is not what Christians do. In fact, 1 John earlier in the same epistle states the following.
1 John 1:8, “If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.”
1 John 2:1, “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
Notice that John the apostle includes himself in the issue of sinning. Are the sinless perfectionist people more holy than John the apostle? I think not.
So, a Christian is to struggle against his sin and to see this before God. But we cannot say that every intention of our hearts is always perfect and pure. If it were, we would not need an intercessor before God once we are saved. The idea of sinless perfectionism is an error that is refuted by Scripture.
QUESTIONS
a) the bible warns against bearing a false witness so if we tell unbelieving co workers families and friends that we are sinless when we are not the scriptures warn that we will be found out , wouldn't that damage our testimony?
Luke 12:3 ..........and what you have whispered in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the housetops
b) One of the reasons for the assumption of a human nature by the Christ is so that the Christ might be tempted as a man and be able to sympathize with men (Heb. 2:14-18). If we elevate Christ’s impeccability in a way that casts aside his temptability, is that not out of step with Scripture ?
c) God is immutable unchanging For example, in Malachi 3:6 God affirms, "I the Lord do not change." doesn't fly off the handle easily , nor a respecter of persons , doesn't entertain him pure thoughts etc etc
So even if a born-again Christian maintains they are sinless in their daily walk are they not attributing the divine attribute of immutability to themselves which is only reserved for God?
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 27 Feb, 2021 09:42 PM
First of all rsvp there is NOT a single person on this forum, nor on the street that is claiming they are without sin BECAUSE that is for other WITNESSES to notice! Got it? I have noticed many Christians that live RIGHTOUS lives (I have witnessed), not coveting, stealing, baring false witness (LYING) nor disregarding the keeping of the Sabbath as COMMANDED, as well as the rest of the TORAH LAW that is still binding! OK? I have NEVER met ANY Christian that said they were sinless but I have noticed they live like a SAINTS! Good grief rsvp, that is the DEFINITION of
RIGHTOUSNESS BY FAITH is becoming a SAINT! Right? Your whole post is about humans focusing on SELF, when the BIBLE says to DIE to SELF and LIVE BY THE FATHER'S HOLY SPIRIT and POWER! That's right, its the FATHER'S HOLY SPIRIT not another 'god' as you claim rsvp by your other CULT doctrine of multiple dieties!
So guess what? If your sinning 'this side of heaven' as you claim you are obviously are, by your posts, then if YHWH was to return this very moment as your reading this post, then you WILL BE FOUND 'filthy still" AND UNRIGHTOUS still it says in Revelations! Correct? There is NO WAY to misunderstand that verse in the TIMING of the event! You better wake up and get victory over your PET SINS soon rsvp! You have been warned and you ARE in error to Biblical doctrine and CONTEXT of entire Bible!
rsvp, you seem to be CLUELESS by your own stated words when you stated '1 Peter 1:16, “Be holy, for I am holy.” and THEN claim somehow PETER is a LIAR and we cannot be holy????????? REALLY rsvp? You then DENY the POWER available from heaven rsvp, so clearly stated in the Bible - for greater is He (YHWH) in heaven and in you than he (satan) is of this world! DUHHHHH!
Then you speak of being 'born again' but then that is just another false translation from the Bible to you because to be 'born again' and to be a 'christian' both according to you is to sin less??? Here you have a problem because if you can sin less as a 'christian' according to you then you CAN CEASE FROM SIN just as the Bible says! RIGHT??? You have no EXCUSE now rsvp! Just WHAT kind of FAITH do you have in your Creator??? Is He POWERLESS according to you??? Do you have verses to show 'saints' will be changed into ROBOTS that can never sin at His return for them? YOU do have some DOCTRINAL issues, don't you rsvp!?
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 02:36 AM
does everybody see this? Posting this topic reminds me of one particular scene from the movie Jaws when the two fishermen put the tire around the pier beam with the line and baited hook , the great white destroyed the pier and almost killed both of them
Teddy hug said :
"First of all rsvp there is NOT a single person on this forum, nor on the street that is claiming they are without sin BECAUSE that is for other WITNESSES to notice! Got it? "
ANSWER : how would you know all the people on this forum and on the streets, and what they believe for that matter? That's a lot of people isn't it; say thousands if not millions? One would have to possess the power of omniscience --all knowing . Fact is you don't know the hearts and thoughts of all of them
Teddy hug said
keeping of the Sabbath as COMMANDED, as well as the rest of the TORAH LAW that is still binding!
ANSWER : rest of Torah law is binding, really? So if you break the Sabbath then you are willing to accept capital punishment found in Exodus 31:14 ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death........ If not, then are you not being a hypocrite?
Teddy hug said
not another 'god' as you claim rsvp by your other CULT doctrine of multiple dieties!
ANSWER : are you saying that the Trinity is not biblical? There's plenty of verses to support the trinity in the Bible
Teddy hug said
Do you have verses to show 'saints' will be changed into ROBOTS that can never sin at His return for them?
ANSWER : no not robots but our flesh will change from the corruptible to the uncorruptible during the rapture .@ that point our flesh our new bodies will no longer be subject to temptation to sin. 1 Corinthians 15:52 moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 08:51 AM
Hey JAWS! I see your lips moving but you have no TEETH in truth bubba! So your 'pier' is stinking sinking between your INDOCTRINATED ears!
rsvp posts - 'ANSWER : how would you know all the people on this forum and on the streets, and what they believe for that matter? That's a lot of people isn't it; say thousands if not millions? One would have to possess the power of omniscience --all knowing . Fact is you don't know the hearts and thoughts of all of them'
OBVIOUS RESPONSE - rsvp hangs around sinners because they are like himself, as he claims to be WITHOUT FAITH, yet has 'faith' in his sins and THEREFORE sees no RIGHTEOUSNESS in just a select few, then assumes the "millions and thousands" must be living in sin! There you go! rsvp accuses others as being 'omniscience' while claiming he is himself! LOL! What a self righteous nut case!
rsvp posts - ANSWER : 'rest of Torah law is binding, really? So if you break the Sabbath then you are willing to accept capital punishment found in Exodus 31:14 ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death........ If not, then are you not being a hypocrite?'
OBVIOUS RESPONSE - rsvp the ULITIMATE 'hypocrite' claims ONE commandment that says NOT to FORGET is a terrible judgment but yet rsvp doesn't find it offensive when YHWH will put people to death for MURDERING (another HOLY commandment!) others come judgment day! rsvp thinks just because RIGHTOEUS SAINTS are NOT going around 'stoning' SINNERS for breaking the HOLY Sabbath, then it must be OK today???
LOL! Hey Einstein, YHWH will do the killing come judment day! The question is DO YOU WANT TO LIVE OR DIE ETERNALLY??? GEESH! Its sooooo simple! You sure 'serve' a TERRIBLE 'god' for ONLY certain Biblical 'crimes' don't you?
rsvp posts - ANSWER : 'are you saying that the Trinity is not biblical? There's plenty of verses to support the trinity in the Bible'
OMISSION RESPONSE - You have provided ZERO Scripture to support your CULT 'teaching' that there are three musketeers (Trinity??? LOL! ) 'persons' in all the shows you watch on your b o o b tube but only in your INDOCTRINATED mind laddy by what you are taught! BUTTTTTTT there is plenty of verses that CLEARLY state YHWH can be two or three places AT THE SAME TIME known as omnipresent!!! Got it now lad?
Do yourself a favor and stop thinking for yourself! Ooooh WAIT, your already doing that! My bad! Put away the BONG dude and wake up to being 'sober' from the CULT teachings!
rsvp posts - ANSWER : no not robots but our flesh will change from the corruptible to the uncorruptible during the rapture .@ that point our flesh our new bodies will no longer be subject to temptation to sin. 1 Corinthians 15:52 moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed'
LOGICAL CONTEXTUAL RESPONSE - Its real SIMPLE you self proclaimed THEO! Paul is ONLY TALKING about a BODY change dude, read his lips there JAWS, so stop snapping yours for a spell and learn! WE ARE NOT talking about NEW BODIES (pay attention student!) but the CHANGE of MINDS and HEARTS >>>BEFORE<<< His return for His NON SINNING SAINTS! Got it now? Talk about taking Scripture out of context you keep accusing Adam of doing!? LOL! Old black kettle rsvp trying to call Adam a black pot! LMBO! GEESH, your ignorance to Scripture is ASTOUNDING! Next you will tell us the verse is talking about president Trump, as the last 'trump' before YHWH's return for His SINLESS SAINTS!?
SOOOOO its obvious you claim peoples MINDS and HEARTS will be changed at His coming then.... THUS..... ROBOTS that cannot choose to sin??? Did ADAM and EVE choose to sin? There goes out the window your ROBOTISM doctrine! Right? Do you have a reasoning skills rsvp???
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 09:23 AM
From a logical perspective as the old saying goes if you remove one card from the house of cards then the whole house collapses
when we speak of God existing in three Persons, we mean that God’s existence is comprised of three distinct centers of intellect, emotion, and will. Each Person of the Trinity had a unique role in creation and in the salvation of mankind. The Holy Spirit is unique and is not the Father or the Son (He proceeds from the Father and the Son, John 15:26). The Father and the Son are also unique (when Jesus prayed to the Father, He was not praying to Himself, Luke 23:34). each is God, but each is a separate “Person.” Using the word person is one of the only ways our language has to describe this concept.
All three Persons of the Trinity comprise the one, perfectly unified God. They share the same nature and essence, and they are all the same God, but each individual Person of the Trinity is distinct and unique. The fact that God exists in three Persons is important for several reasons. For instance, God is love (1 John 4:8). But, in eternity past, before God created any other being, could He have truly been love? That is, can love exist where there is no one to be loved?
Because God exists in three co-equal, co-eternal Persons, love exists, too. Eternal love has been expressed eternally among the Persons of the Godhead. The Father, Son, and Spirit have always loved each other, and so love is eternal ......
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 09:48 AM
Without the trinity we do not have salvation because all three persons are involved in our salvation
John 6:44 the father draws man unto himself
Luke 19:10 the son saves
Ephesians 1:13 the holy Spirit seals
THE HOUSE OF CARDS HAS FALLEN
if someone denies the essential Christian doctrine of the trinity then why should we trust them regarding other basic biblical doctrines like the rapture, bodily resurrection , hermeneutics etc etc ?? The answer is we shouldn't
Hebrews 5:12 in fact though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 02:20 PM
None of us can say we only tell the truth because we don't know what the truth is. We can only not say things we know not to be the truth.
None of us can say we don't sin because we don't know every facet of sin that exists. We can only strive not to do that which we know is sin.
Anyone that uses fear to put a message across is either insecure themselves or has an agenda. It is not a good thing for everyone to concur with each other all the time in a bubble or we will not learn. Knowing the scripture is not enough. Everything needs to be fleshed out so The Holy Spirit can reveal the truth.
I am not prepared to claim to be sinless, when you do that you are no longer living in a daily confession of sin. There are sins all of us commit that we don't even know about. If we are no longer confessing our sin (praying as a sinner) then will God still forgive us? Jesus said all sin we confess will be forgiven but if we believe we are no longer sinners, but sinless is that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sin?
A Christian can do what they like but I know what I'll do.
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 09:37 PM
Marcouse states - 'None of us can say we only tell the truth because we don't know what the truth is.
Then you contradict the very words above with below???
Marcouse states - 'Everything needs to be fleshed out so The Holy Spirit can reveal the truth.'
Sooooo since YHWH's set apart Holy Spirit 'can reveal the truth' to you Marcouse, then how is it that same Father's own Spirit NOT able to let you 'know what the truth is' as you say my friend??? This kind of logic does not sound like you Marcouse!
Marcouse states - 'There are sins all of us commit that we don't even know about.' Really Marcouse! So Father YHWH thru His own set apart Holy Spirit DOES NOT tell us/convict us of what sins we have committed??? Can we be held accountable for sins of 'every facet of sin that exists' as you stated if we don't even know we committed them according to you? That makes no sense also!
Marcouse states - 'If we are no longer confessing our sin (praying as a sinner) then will God still forgive us?'
So when will all this 'confessing' of sin end then Marcouse and do you have Scripture to support this change and WHEN? Are you teaching ROBOTISM at YHWH'S return for His SAINTS also, like rsvp and moon? The Bible seems REAL CLEAR continual sinners (or as you say - 'praying as a [continual] sinner') do NOT go to heaven because SHORTLY before His return the Bible states - he/she that is filthy let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is righteous, let him/her be righteous still! The choice is yours Marcouse! I'm just the parroting messenger echoing the clear teaching of the Bible. OK?
Should a Christian claim to be sinless this side of eternity? -- bonus questions @ the bottom of the message
Posted : 28 Feb, 2021 09:45 PM
rsvp, the Bible clearly says there is ONLY ONE YHWH! And this is ONLY just ONE verse below!
Isaiah 45:5 (KJV) 'I am the LORD, and >>>there is none else, there is no (other) god beside me:<<< I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:'
Isaiah 45:5 (CJB) 'I am ADONAI; >>>there is no other; besides me there is no (other) god.<<< I am arming you, although you don't know me,'
Isaiah is clearly telling us that >>>BEFORE<<< the Father ever put His WORD in flesh (John 1) and called it His ONLY begotten Son, the Messiah Yah'shua, the Father was all that existed! OK? Of course He had His set apart Holy Spirit that exists as a part of Him because He is also HOLY, so of course His SPIRIT would be!
So explain your CULT doctrine then..... Since the Bible CLEARLY says that the Father will return in judgment with His Son sitting on His right hand side, then who is sitting on His left hand side??? There is no mention of a separate 'god' as you claim is a 'Holy Spirit' on His left hand side because THE 'Holy Spirit' IS part of the Father and always has been but He can send it from Himself for His plan and purpose! Don't forget He has other holy spirits called angels that have work to do and obey the Father! Got it now?
I have noticed many Christians that live RIGHTOUS lives (I have witnessed), not coveting, stealing, baring false witness (LYING) nor disregarding the keeping of the Sabbath as COMMANDED, as well as the rest of the TORAH LAW that is still binding! 
OK? I have NEVER met ANY Christian that said they were sinless but I have noticed they live like a SAINTS! 
Right? 
Your whole post is about humans focusing on SELF, when the BIBLE says to DIE to SELF and LIVE BY THE FATHER'S HOLY SPIRIT and POWER! 
Correct? There is NO WAY to misunderstand that verse in the TIMING of the event! 
You better wake up and get victory over your PET SINS soon rsvp! 
REALLY rsvp? 
You then DENY the POWER available from heaven rsvp, so clearly stated in the Bible - for greater is He (YHWH) in heaven and in you than he (satan) is of this world! 
DUHHHHH!
rsvp accuses others as being 'omniscience' while claiming he is himself! 
LOL! What a self righteous nut case! 
GEESH! Its sooooo simple! 
) 'persons' in all the shows you watch on your b o o b tube but only in your INDOCTRINATED mind laddy by what you are taught! 
WE ARE NOT talking about NEW BODIES (pay attention student!) but the CHANGE of MINDS and HEARTS >>>BEFORE<<< His return for His NON SINNING SAINTS! 
The Bible seems REAL CLEAR continual sinners (or as you say - 'praying as a [continual] sinner') do NOT go to heaven because SHORTLY before His return the Bible states - he/she that is filthy let him/her be filthy still and he/she that is righteous, let him/her be righteous still!