Thread: God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
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God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 18 Feb, 2021 07:40 AM
the saying "God helps those who help themselves" comes to us by various roots and across millennia. One of its earliest known expressions is from the Aesopian fable, "Hercules and the Wagoneer." Here is the text of that brief fable......
A WAGGONER was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. "O Hercules, help me in this my hour of distress," quoth he. But Hercules appeared to him, and said:
"Tut, man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel.
"THE GODS HELP THEM THAT HELP THEMSELVES."
Aesop lived from about 620-564 BC. A more contemporary provenance and one which matches the common wording identically comes to us by way of Benjamin Franklin (Poor Richard's Almanac, 1736). Franklin himself was a deist and so he believed that God did not play an active role in men's lives. In his point of view if man was not able to help himself, then man was hopeless.
The Bible teaches something entirely different than the above saying, because God makes special provision to help the helpless.
Romans 5:6, 8
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly....But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 18 Feb, 2021 09:14 AM
All we need to do is state the devils, and heavensgrpcalling, evil intentions.
In this thread, right away it is apparant ( to me) what the purpose here is. It is, to take away all thought of man having to do actions and works himself, so as to lyingly teach that all examples of doing things ourselves are wrong, and how we need do nothing, all is done for us.
Now, undoing ( as always) the deceivers attempts, Christ teaches man better.
To STRIVE TO ENTER, as so many seek but are unable ( as they do not strive to enter)..
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Into the Epistles, and we have a race to run, to STRIVE FOR THE MASTERY, is to make certain we are TEMPERATE IN ALL THINGS, so certainly, to obtain the incorruptible crown. By keeping under our body, and BRINGING IT INTO SUBJECTION ( so far this is helping ourselves to make sure we do not fail)..
1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Next is enduring hardness as the chosen soldier of God,, to STRIVE FOR MASTERY'S, has to be done lawfully, by not being entangled, in the affairs of this life to PLEASE GOD..
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
Romans 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
So, did Romans 5:8, somehow say we are not to help ourselves, in the devils eyes ..
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
The evil one keeps giving us this practise, to know its crooked intentions, to appear as an angel of light, but its sole purpose is so we fail of the grace of God.
Christ died for us, as per Romans 5:8, and as per 2 Peter 1, gave us all things that pertain to life, and godliness, through Christ, who, CALLED US TO VIRTUE.
Which also tells us, ( word for word with God as always) to be parttaker of His divine nature, escaping the corruption of lust, and GIVE ALL DILLIGENCE ( strive) add to our faith virtue, knowledge ( of Christ) temperance, ( striving and temperate in all things as per, 1 Corinthians 9:24-27)patience, godliness, kindness, charity, to make OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE, and not be as the deceiver spirit teaches, to forget once purged from our old sins, of course we work with God..
2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Speaking of patience, not to cast away what is required for reward, for we have need of patience, after we do the will of God( God helping with those who help themselves not to fail judgement day) to receive the promise.
As we see, the just shall live by faith, but falling back, it is faithlessness which does NOT PLEASE THE LORD..
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 18 Feb, 2021 11:45 AM
Adam I love you brother but on this one you couldn't hit water if you fell off of the titanic -- this is about dispelling a Christian cliche of course when God calls us to work for him we are to do just that work and be found laboring in the fields
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 19 Feb, 2021 12:44 AM
"Our Calling in Troubled Times
Reference Read
John 14:26-28"
Sounds nice, but now we read different to the good words and fair speeches God warned us about, that show they serve only their own belly to deceive the simple..
Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Now, actually reading what John 14 says, how the wicked one was unhappy how Christ only manifests Himself to who He chooses.
Jesus answers, the ones who love Him, try much harder than a thief and betrayer, to care for others, and this is how the heart is not troubled, because all things are taught to us by God( and the deceiver is silenced as we see how it was for judas)..
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
"on this one you couldn't hit water if you fell off of the titanic"
You show you are without faith in God by speaking your own words of your own worlds "wisdom" which is turned backwards..
When we fall, what happens, what is told for us ?
To be held up by the Lord, if He wants us to be held up, to not hit water...
Psalm 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Psalm 30:1 I will extol thee, O Lord; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me.
Isaiah 33:10 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
Your way to teach how it is wrong to help ourselves, is because a man says hopeless men do not do any actions..
"In his point of view if man was not able to help himself, then man was hopeless."
That does not teach how we should do no actions, or that those words were wrong.
What is wrong, is to try to subtly teach, we should not help ourselves.
We, with faith, must not let faith die, not quench the Spirit, must not faint or give up, but as told yesterday, ( and you reject of course) strive for all we do with the gift given to us by God (which again proves, God helps those who continue to help themselves)..
Romans 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Hebrews 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Your own words, say to do away with the saying of, God helping us, if we also help.
Gods words make your words vanish.
Apostle Paul exhorted us, about the gift of God we receive from the Lord, TO NOT NEGLECT THE GIFT THAT IS IN US, then we need to do ACTIONS, so we do NOT FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD AS YOU SUGGEST, WE AS COMMANDED BY GOD, study Gods doctrine and give ourselves wholly to it and CONTINUE IN THEM SO WE SAVE OTHERS AND OURSELVES..
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Hebrews 12:12-13 just told about how we must strive for our heads not to be down, not to give up and stop working with God, but push more than ever in these times ( the devil saying not to proves these are the very times )
Again, Hebrews 12:15-17 continues the same message and warning, LOOK DILLIGENTLY, or we fail the grace of God, for not working to stop fornication in faith to Christ, to work hard with God to avoid being defiled, or there is NO REPENTANCE..
Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
The bible does not speak of this world, or of any persons, it teaches the righteousness of Heaven, that is why you cannot add or take away, anything at all. All we need for faith is in there already. To tell the words of God to each other, is when we do correctly, which is not only what you never do, but also you try to oppose to anyone doing just that, in correction to you. ( as you are meant to do )
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 19 Feb, 2021 09:00 AM
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 AND SUCH (UNRIGHTEOUS AND UNJUST) WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, BU.T YE ARE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, THEM HE ALSO JUSTIFIED: and whom he justified, THEM HE ALSO GLORIFIED.
1 Thessalonians 4:2 FOR YE KNOW WHAT COMMANDMENTS we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how TO POSSESS HIS VESSEL IN SANCTIFICATION AND HONOUR.
Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, AND THE COMMANDMENT, HOLY, AND JUST AND GOOD.
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 19 Feb, 2021 12:57 PM
I think the thing is to approach life with the right mindset trying to keep moving in the right direction.
You can't know where different paths lead but if you are doing things that you can that are good it opens up the chances for opportunity where God can work.
If King David hadn't kept practicing with his sling while watching the sheep he might not have had the confidence to take on Goliath. Even without God's help he had a 50 / 50 shot at taking him out just because he had used his time wisely.
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 19 Feb, 2021 03:59 PM
Marcouse, you are so right its really about our attitude by FAITH and then good works follow in the ongoing sinless sanctification by His POWER and might! Its like you say 'the right mindset' going forward that we are to be thinking but then there are those that say we should not have a 'mind' of 'ourselves' but I guess to be like programmed robots come resurrection day?
Moon writes - 'God wants us to get our minds off ourselves and onto Him because He is our rock and refuge in trouble. Our Calling in Troubled Times'
You teach a 'Grace' (justification) that is a DISGRACE (unrightousness) if you think we should NOT have a mind of ourselves (our ongoing sinless sanctification choices) while we are still living in sin as you claim in many threads!? Quite the opposite of what the Bible teaches, that we should be mindful (of our ongoing sinless sanctification) of our potential sins, should we elect to commit them again.
For this is Father YHWH's POWER thru His set apart Holy Spirit that He SANCTIFIES us on a daily basis, to KEEP US FROM SINNING and THEREFORE is 'our rock and refuge in (time of potential) trouble'!
Moon you always seem to imply that regardless of 'daily sins' (as you have repeatedly posted on this forum that all keep sinning ), we should not focus on ourselves, our minds and ways of thinking, He will still be 'our rock and refuge in trouble' because we have a license to keep on sinning!? Really?
God helps those who help themselves -- does it really work that way??
Posted : 19 Feb, 2021 04:03 PM
justhangingaround writes - 'Adam, rsvp is talking about justification and you are talking about sanctification. If you would read it properly you would understand that.'
Isn't it interesting that rsvp has left out the COMPLETE gospel message that initial salvation (justification) from our >>>PAST<<< sins is then followed by the sanctification (ongoing salvation on a daily basis proven by works) process!? You can then see why Adam in Adams way felt the need to include it here in this thread because of rsvp's negligence! If you would read (THE THREAD) properly you would understand that error!
but then there are those that say we should not have a 'mind' of 'ourselves' but I guess to be like programmed robots come resurrection day? 
Quite the opposite of what the Bible teaches, that we should be mindful (of our ongoing sinless sanctification) of our potential sins, should we elect to commit them again. 
), we should not focus on ourselves, our minds and ways of thinking, He will still be 'our rock and refuge in trouble' because we have a license to keep on sinning!? Really? 
