Thread: Can we separate ourselves from the love of God?
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Can we separate ourselves from the love of God?
Posted : 30 Apr, 2020 04:53 PM
Romans 8:38-39 says "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our LORD."
It seems not even we can separate ourselves from the love of God, since we are His creations. Yes, we can turn away from God, but these two verses aren't saying anything about the love of man, it's talking about the love of God. His love is abounding, it's perfect. He loved us so much that He gave His only begotten Son to die for our sins so that we can be saved and have everlasting life.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever believeth in Him shall have eternal life."
So no matter what you do, no matter how awful you think you are, God loves you. If you are unsaved, He loves you and He wants you to worship Him. He wants your attention, your praise. I know that might not sound like a loving God to some, but would you rather give all the praise to someone who doesn't want you to have eternal life? Someone who wants you to live in a place of torment and unending suffering? We should love one and hate the other. But even if you choose to hate God, He will still love you. And don't think that just because you love God, just because you are saved your life is going to be easy. It will definitely not be easy. We will be persecuted for worshipping the Lord, it's already happening. But if you make that choice, the choice to turn your life over to Him then it will all be worth it after while. If you feel that little tug at your heart while reading this then ask Jesus into your life. Accept Him as your personal savior. Ask Him to make you clean and forgive you of all your sins. Don't wait until it's too late. God loves you. Accept His gift of eternal life and it will be yours someday. God bless you.
Maybe you should read Romans 8:38-39 again more closely because WE CAN "separate ourselves" from YHWH but certainly NOT His love, because he always chooses to love us! The only thing missing from those verses IS ourselves, our choices YHWH respects of His FREE WILL creatures that we are and how we are made in His image. We think for ourselves, He thinks for Himself and we make decisions and He makes decisions! We reason things out and He reasons things out, for we are made in His image in understanding, thinking, logic. This is something animals do not do for they are "programmed" to do what is always right, kinda "robotic" if you will.
So you are right, "we can turn away" from YHWH but not His love. Our love is NO WAY anything like His love! Again you are right "His love is abounding, it's perfect" but we are NOT in our own strength and by our own might! We need His set apart Spirit to guide us into living a perfect life of Christ, to imitate His life! YHWH just wants us to CHOOSE everyday as free will creatures to obey His instructions (Laws) out of love to Him, which is to properly worship Him as he deserves to be and instructs us how to do so according to His timing. Yes even if continual sinners choose to hate Him, He still loves them! Of course one day He will have no choice but to destroy those continual sinners in a lake of fire (that today does not exist yet) unto ashes for they would not repent and accept His sacrifice for their sins. For they LOVED to live in sin, you see but its their choice and He honors their choices! Yet we as believers must remember that we can choose to even have our names removed (blotted out) from the book of life as stated in the book of Revelations and therefore must be on our guard not to take the mark of the beast, to overcometh it all! (KJV Rev 3:5; 14:9-12; 13:8; 20:15).
Also Morgan you should know the Bible is very clear "the lake of fire" has not been made yet and never says there will be a "place of torment and unending suffering" (as you stated) because the wages of sin is DEATH (Romans 6:23) not eternal life in a fire, ok? Warning! Soon Richard7744 will be posting his verses of claiming the torment is eternal when it says "Forever and ever", "Everlasting" and "unquenchable fire" for the lost but the Bible is clear in its context that DEATH is "Forever and ever","Everlasting" and the fire when made is unstoppable or "unquenchable" until it goes out on its own, eventually bringing the lost to ashes like every fire does on its own! (Isaiah 47:14; 66:24 and MANY more verses if you want them Morgan!)
Ask yourself this about the LOVE of YHWH Morgan.... Would it make any sense that the Creator of mankind would punish/torment the lost eternally in a fire for a life lived for less than a hundred years??? Really? Even the Saints will continue to eat of the tree of life in heaven and so where is the "tree of life" in the fire that sinners would WANT to eat from and live for ever so they can continue to suffer? Makes no sense does it Morgan?
TeddyHugger is famous because of all of his **FAIRY TALE ** beleafs which include the **FLAT EARTH FAIRY TALE** the **SINLESS PERFECTION FAIRY TALE ** the **ANNIHILATION INSTEAD OF ETERNAL HELL FAIRY TALE** and **JESUS DIDN'T CHANGE ANY OT LAWS FAIRY TALE**
*CAN GOD'S CALLED AND CHOSEN SAINTS FALL AWAY**??
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
**WILL THE LOST JUST BE ANNIHILATED**??
Jesus says 7 times that there will be **WEEPNG AND GNASHING OF TEETH IN ETERNAL HELL** See Matthew 13:41,42,49,50 and Revelation 14:9-11; and Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10!
Teddy, I wasn't talking about the lake of fire, I'm talking about Hell, which is just as real Heaven. Yes the wages of sin is death, but we all have sinned and that we means we all have to die. But if we are His children, if we are saved, if we born again then Heaven will be our home after death. But if we are not and we die in our sins then we are bound for Hell, which is basically a second death. Hell was created by God for Satan and his followerers. And like Heaven, it also lasts forever and ever and there will be no escaping it once there. That's why it's important to make the decision now, while we're still alive to follow Christ. Because once we close our eyes in death then it will be too late.
The terms “hell” and the “lake of fire” describe the same place. The term “hades”, however, describes a temporary holding place for the damned. Everyone there will eventually end up in eternal hell to continue suffering hell’s torments forever and ever throughout eternity
Annihilationism is a false doctrine that denies eternal torment and teaches total destruction of wicked. Jehovahs Wittinesses and others who teach Annihilationism inexcusably and in some cases, purposefully confuse biblical terminology.
Some falsely believe that God is only a God of love. But God is not only a God of love, he is also a God of wrath.
For example, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him“ (John 3:36).
Wrath Is Not For Believers. Those who believe in Jesus will not experience the wrath of God.
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 5:9).
The reason people must suffer for all eternity in hell for sin is because sin is an eternal offense against an eternal God.
The Bible also teaches eternal security of the believer because the believer is kept secure in God’s love because only God can keep a person secure in his love, see Romans 8:38-39, 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
No person who has been predestined to eternal life can default by his own choice to “remove himself“ from God’s love. In other words “no person can take himself out of the hand of God”, just as Paul says, “not ANYTHING in ALL creation, will be ABLE to separate us from the love of God...”. Paul’s words are comprehensively inclusive when he solemnly affirms that NOT ANYTHING IN ALL CREATION >>IS ABLE<< TO SEPARATE US FROM Gods love.
To deny this truth, is to deny the power of God to save. The person who believes he can “remove himself“ from Gods love is the same person who must assume it is HIMSELF who IS ABLE to keep himself in Gods love AND it IS HIMSELF who is ABLE to remove or change what God has predestined!! This person ultimately MUST rest on the false notion that it is really by HIS OWN effort he is kept in the love of God.
In reality, Hades is a holding place for BOTH hell and heaven. Tartarus is the compartment of Hades that holds people for eventual Hell....the place the Rich Man was sent who was so unkind to Lazarus. Paradise is the holding compartment for those going to Heaven. When Christ said to the thief, "today you shall be with me in Paradise" that's exactly what he meant. Christ did not go to heaven until after he showed himself to the disciples and others. And some religions believe you can pray yourself out of Tartarus, but once you are dead, your final destination is already set and no amount of prayers or crying will change it.
Imagine friends people going to these "compartments" and or "holding places" like "hell, heaven, tartarus, hades and paradise" but not sure WHERE all of those places ARE that needsafriend is QUACKING about??? Is this woman confusing or what and her church teaches this STUFF, she believes it??? I think they may be serving to much "tartarus" sauce to the goyim of her church? There is ONLY heaven/paradise and hell/grave now!
Its sooooooo simple when you just study the Bible, look up the definitions like I did in my post to David above! Too much to ask? Wow!
For instance you claim paradise is a different place or a "holding compartment" than heaven is???
Lets look at your SERIOUS flaws in Bible study, to the definition of words like "paradise" and "heaven" shall we?
Rev. 2:7 KJV "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the >>tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."<<
Rev. 2:7 CSB "Let anyone who has ears to hear listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers, I will give the right to eat from the >>tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."<<
Rev. 2:7 CEV "If you have ears, listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. I will let everyone who wins the victory eat from the >>life-giving tree in God's wonderful garden."<<
John again speaking of the New Jerusalem City below in paradise/heaven ....
Rev. 22:2 KJV "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there >>>the tree of life,<<< which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
As you can HOPEFULLY see now by the above verses that paradise is CLEARLY the same place as heaven, where the New Jerusalem city is right NOW and BEFORE coming to the enclosed earth from heaven above the solid firmament. Paradise is like a metaphor for heaven if you will. Paradise was originally Yahuwah's "wonderful garden" where the "life-giving tree" of life existed on earth. (Gen. 2:9). Also stated in the CEV above, that same tree of life is NOW in the New Jerusalem city in heaven/paradise! You see it all now?
Once again you are Biblically correct that "Hell" (which is simply the grave) is just as real as heaven/paradise! Yet the difference is people are NOT conscience in the hell/grave but they will be in heaven. Every day I drive by a grave yard it seems, where DEAD people go and are "sleeping" (the Messiah says death is a sleep - John 11:11,14) and ALL are awaiting resurrection day (1 Corth. 15:12-23). Even Paul says death is a sleep in 1 Corth. 15:51. Martha KNEW that if Lazarus was to continue to stay DEAD (ASLEEP) then he would not awake until resurrection day! John 11:24!
Morgan stated - "Teddy, I wasn't talking about the lake of fire, I'm talking about Hell" end quote.
Morgan you originally stated about the lost would go to "a place of torment and unending suffering" and so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you knew your Bible and you was speaking of the lake of fire that would be made one day. You see? You never once mentioned "hell" in your opening thread post! Right? Go back and read it. The point was Morgan, that the lost will die in that "lake of fire" made one day and become ashes in it, stated in the verses I gave in my previous post to you.
Are you aware of the word "hell" and its definition in the Bible? Do you know that the grave and hell are one and the same place for humans and other creatures? The Bible says that David and the Messiah went to "hell" and my point is that its very much a misunderstood word that is sooo abused in churches today!
Did David go to the hell/grave and is he there yet today? Yup its true, David is sleeping in hell!
Act 2:29 KJV "Men and brethern, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried (in hell), and his sepulchure (grave site) is with us unto this day.
Did the Messiah go to the hell/grave? Yup, He sure did!
Act 2:25a,27,31 KJV "For David speaketh concerning him.....Because thou wilt not leave my soul (person) in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (no decay in hell/grave). He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul (person) was NOT left in hell, neither His flesh (body) did see corruption. (AGAIN no decay in the hell/grave)!
You surprised me Morgan when you stated "we die in our sins then we are bound for Hell, which is basically a second death." because not many people quote Revelation chapter 20 in how in plainly states that the unrighteous (wicked) die TWO DEATHS and the righteous are ONLY subjected to ONE possible death! Yes, "Hell" and the SEPARATE one day made "lake of fire" was and will be created by YHWH for satan and his angels, unfortunately also human followers. Yup! Like you said Morgan, that like Heaven/Paradise, "hell" will also lasts forever and ever in the sense of those dying in it and there will be no escaping it once they are there. It will be a done deal, as they chose to be there!
Don't you find it very VERY strange that Richard has NOT posted over you and needsafriend comments??? That should alarm you would it not, that Richard the false teacher agrees with you??? This is just another of Richard's false doctrines dude! Lets look at what's posted here, shall we! With all due respect David.....
This is where we differ when you stated - "The terms “hell” and the “lake of fire” describe the same place" when its obvious the Bible says other wise my friend. If “hell” and the “lake of fire” are one and the same place, then why does the verse below say differently?
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14a.
Another words if "hell" is a burning place, then does the Bible teach that a burning place gets thrown into the another burning place (i.e. "lake of fire") when its made one day??? See a obvious common sense problem David? I have never tried to start two fires and cast one into the other, have you? Can this be done?
I agree with you that the word “Hades” (Greek word for grave/hell) is a temporary unconscious "holding place" for the dead BUT both the righteous ("saved") and unrighteous ("damned") go there. Its simply the grave yard, OK? Oh and "Sheol" is the Hebrew word (also hades 7592) for the place of the dead - grave, hell, pit.
The first death (temporary) death/hell (old age, disease, accident) is due every person (rather "saved" or "damned") because of sin from the garden days and there is NOT a thing we can do about it! BUT the second death/hell we can do something about and that is believe, repent and follow in the footsteps of the Messiah! That second (permanent) death/hell is ONLY meant for the unrepentant unrighteous continual LAW BREAKER sinner, agree? Those continual LAW BREAKING sinners are NOT "annihilated" but suffer for the AMOUNT of their sins, of what NUMBER of sins they committed in their lifetimes in the one day made "lake of fire" with the devil, false prophet, catholic "church" beast power, etc... all outside the New Jerusalem City (Rev. 20:9,10).
Some will be tormented for "night and day" but ALL will eventually become ashes JUST like Sodom and Gomorrah is for an EXAMPLE for us today! (2 Peter 2:6 and Jude verse 7) Please NOTE David that Jude 7 does NOT say the TORMENT is eternal but the FIRE is eternal in its duration to do its job, which is like ANY FIRE that burns things to ashes! Correct?
So what are the names in Hebrew/Greek, examples of "places" for understanding the word "hell" in the Bible?
Hebrew 7585 Sheol - (also hades 7592) place of the dead - grave, hell, pit.
Greek 1067 Geena - a valley of Jerusalem, used FIGURATIVELY as a name for a place of everlasting punishment - hell.
Greek 86 Hades - the place of dead animal souls or human souls/persons - grave, hell.
Greek 5020 Tartaros - to incarcerate (angels) - cast them down to hell.
David writes - "Some falsely believe that God is only a God of love. But God is not only a God of love, he is also a God of wrath."
"For example, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him“ (John 3:36). end quotes.
Well David I agree YHWH is only a Creator of love, yet also a YHWH of wrath but did you actually read the verse you posted?
When we "believe" in the Yah'shua the Son, repent of our sins, we have eternal life but those continual sinners who reject the Son will not see eternal life! Correct? So what is the opposite of eternal life? Simple, eternal death! Romans 6:23! The wages of sin is not eternal life in a fire, is it David? Absurdity!
"For the >>>wages of sin is death;<<< but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Yahuwah's death wrath Is Not For Believers. Those who believe in Yah'shua the Son will not experience the death wrath of YHWH!
TeddyHugger is famous because of all of his **FAIRY TALE ** beleafs which include the **FLAT EARTH FAIRY TALE** the **SINLESS PERFECTION FAIRY TALE ** the **ANNIHILATION INSTEAD OF ETERNAL HELL FAIRY TALE** and **JESUS DIDN'T CHANGE ANY OT LAWS FAIRY TALE**
*CAN GOD'S CALLED AND CHOSEN SAINTS FALL AWAY**??
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
**WILL THE LOST JUST BE ANNIHILATED**??
Jesus says 7 times that there will be **WEEPNG AND GNASHING OF TEETH IN ETERNAL HELL** See Matthew 13:41,42,49,50 and Revelation 14:9-11; and Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10!
There is ONLY heaven/paradise and hell/grave now! 
