We have a Member here that recently wrote the following concerning John 1:1 and then tapped out. Now another member is fearfully covering the response to it with a plethora of off topic copy/paste bible verses. Therefore, I re-post the relevant part here.
Below is the member's post:
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"Talk about an immovable truth!!"
"Talk about a self-evident truth!!"
"One might wonder how such simple axioms that are so immovable and self-evident could possibly escape certain people—but alas they do. Alas alas alas!"
"......to select the proper meaning in a terms range of meaning depends on its contextual application."
"That’s another simple axiom lost on certain people."
"Obviously in the John 1:1 context “the Word” means the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ."
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Seems pretty confident, doesn't he? But let's see if he if his confidence is well placed.
To aid in understanding what a writer such as the Apostle John might mean in John 1:1, we look for other places where he uses a word or phrase or expresses an idea. After searching through all the writings of the Apostle John for context, I can find no use of the word "Trinity". I even looked for where John might mention a three quasi form-matter compound or three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases. I could find nothing.
Therefore "in context" we have nothing, nada, zilch in all of John's writings indicating he had the formulated Trinity in mind when he wrote John 1:1.
Keeping an open mind and looking forward to anyone supplying me with the proper context showing John had a formulated Trinity in mind when he wrote John 1:1, I thank you in advance.
But before you do, consider this: Why did it take another 250 years for the Church to call a special council to discuss, decide, accept and ratify a formulated Trinity if it was such a "immovable truth, self evident axiom" found in John 1:1 all along?
The "Logos" has a wide range of meanings as you previously pointed out in another thread. After all Philo of Alexandrian living at the same time as John and Jesus used the word logos and wasn't referring to a Trinity or Biunity.
Before the haters attack, I fully believe G-D was in Jesus reconciling the world to Himself. But that's a ways away from a "Trinity".
And you are absolutely right, there is no mention of the Holy Spirit in John 1:1. This only works as a proof text -IF- one engages the Bible systematically where different verses are part of a whole equation.
Quiznos, Khutzpah and HiddenMountain do not believe that Jesus is **GOD** and He is not or **SAVIOR** since His blood does not make atonement for our sins.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**IS JESUS OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**??
Jesus is called **GOD** **7 TIMES** and **LORD** over 200 times in God's Word. Everyone believes that all the words of John are God's Word and Jesus is called **GOD** **THREE TIMES** in the Book of John!!
While the holy spirit is never called God or Lord even once and is **NEVER** worshipped in the NT. Therewill only be **TWO THRONES** for Jesus and the Father in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3.But this is a long Bible study So we will only show that Jesus is God in this Bible study.
John 20:27-29: Then He said to Thomas, "Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to him, "My Lord and **MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!"
Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor and **MIGHTY GOD**!
Isaiah 7:14: The Lord Himself will give you a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and will call Him **IMMANUEL**! {Which means **GOD WITH US**!}
Matthew 1:20-23: The angel of the Lord said to Joseph, "Take Mary home as your wife because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She is to give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus which means **GOD IS HELP**, because He will save His people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet {Isaiah 7:14 above} "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and they will call Him **IMMANUEL** which means **GOD WITH US**!
John 1:18: No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD** and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!
John 14:6,7: Jesus says, "I am the **WAY** the **TRUTH** and the **LIFE**. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you really knew Me, you will know the Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have **SEEN HIM**!"
**GOD'S WORD COMMANDS THAT WE SHOULD ONLY WORSHIP GOD**!!
Matthew 4:9,10: Satan said to Jesus, "All this I will give you if you bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, Away from Me Satan! For it is written, '**WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD** and serve Him only!
Revelation 19:9,10: The angel said to me, "Write this: **BLESSED** are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the **LAMB**!" And he added, "These are the true words of God!" At this I fell at his feet to **WORSHIP** him, But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus! **WORSHIP GOD**! For it is the spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus!"
Revelation 22:8,9: I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "**DON'T DO THAT** A am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who **KEEP THE WORDS** of this scroll. **WORSHIP GOD**!!
Hebrews 1:6,8: When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**.... About the Son He says, "Your throne, **O GOD**, will last for ever and ever, a scepter of justice will be the scepter of **YOUR KINGDOM**!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY**in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always!"
**JESUS CHRIST, OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**
Jesus is **WORSHIPED** many times in God's Word in Matthew 2:2,8,11; 14:33; 28:9,17 Luke 24:52 John 9:38 and Revelation 5:11-14 and !5:4!!
Matthew 2:10,11: When the Wise Men saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the Child with His mother Mary, and they bowed down and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 14:33; Then those who were in the boat **WORSHPED HIM**!!
Matthew 28:8,9: So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell His disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," He said. They came to Him, clasped His feet and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 28:16,17: Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When the saw Him, they **WORSHIPED HIM**!
There are some who completely ignore these Scriptures and claim that Jesus is not God because he said that the Father is greater than me in John 14:28 and that the Father told Him what to say as per John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. The words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me."
John 9:37,38: Jesus said, "You have now seen Him; in fact, He is the one speaking with you!" Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he **WORSHIPED HIM**!
NOTE: Jesus is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation!
Revelation 5:13,14: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, an all that is In them, saying "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**!
Revelation 17:14; They will wage war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be **HIS** **CALLED**, *CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify a peoe that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
The Trinity is proven by the flat earth model. With one or two legs, it would topple over. A flat earth has to have at least 3 legs - this proves the Trinity!
but it is still water whether a solid, liquid or gas.
Jesus/God manifest in the flesh .
He is the same God.
John 14:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
The Trinity is proven by the flat earth model. With one or two legs, it would topple over. A flat earth has to have at least 3 legs - this proves the Trinity!
End quote
Seriously dude???
Is that your final answer?
There is a Godhead and 3 that bear record in heaven..
The Father , the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Wheres the Trinity?
Wheres the beef as the old ladies said on that popular commercial once.
You must define "Trinity" to understand if it is biblical.
"The Trinity is proven by the flat earth model. With one or two legs, it would topple over. A flat earth has to have at least 3 legs - this proves the Trinity!"
Well as usual Chuck does not know his Bible and continues to hug his GLOBLET, so CUTE a mental picture!
The Bible says the earth has 4 corners and all the footstools I have seen have 4 legs!!!
Oh snap! Chuck just broke a leg and " topple over" when he tripped over his coveted beach ball! Darn those little boy toys!
Quiznos and Khutzpah are hiding their belief that Jesus is not God by continually mentioning the trinity.!
Quiznos, Khutzpah and HiddenMountain do not believe that Jesus is **GOD** and He is not or **SAVIOR** since His blood does not make atonement for our sins.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**IS JESUS OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**??
Jesus is called **GOD** **7 TIMES** and **LORD** over 200 times in God's Word. Everyone believes that all the words of John are God's Word and Jesus is called **GOD** **THREE TIMES** in the Book of John!!
While the holy spirit is never called God or Lord even once and is **NEVER** worshipped in the NT. There will only be **TWO THRONES** for Jesus and the Father in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3.But this is a long Bible study So we will only show that Jesus is God in this Bible study.
John 20:27-29: Then He said to Thomas, "Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to him, "My Lord and **MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!"
Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor and **MIGHTY GOD**!
Isaiah 7:14: The Lord Himself will give you a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and will call Him **IMMANUEL**! {Which means **GOD WITH US**!}
Matthew 1:20-23: The angel of the Lord said to Joseph, "Take Mary home as your wife because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She is to give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus which means **GOD IS HELP**, because He will save His people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet {Isaiah 7:14 above} "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and they will call Him **IMMANUEL** which means **GOD WITH US**!
John 1:18: No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD** and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!
John 14:6,7: Jesus says, "I am the **WAY** the **TRUTH** and the **LIFE**. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you really knew Me, you will know the Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have **SEEN HIM**!"
**GOD'S WORD COMMANDS THAT WE SHOULD ONLY WORSHIP GOD**!!
Matthew 4:9,10: Satan said to Jesus, "All this I will give you if you bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, Away from Me Satan! For it is written, '**WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD** and serve Him only!
Revelation 19:9,10: The angel said to me, "Write this: **BLESSED** are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the **LAMB**!" And he added, "These are the true words of God!" At this I fell at his feet to **WORSHIP** him, But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus! **WORSHIP GOD**! For it is the spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus!"
Revelation 22:8,9: I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "**DON'T DO THAT** A am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who **KEEP THE WORDS** of this scroll. **WORSHIP GOD**!!
Hebrews 1:6,8: When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**.... About the Son He says, "Your throne, **O GOD**, will last for ever and ever, a scepter of justice will be the scepter of **YOUR KINGDOM**!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY**in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always!"
**JESUS CHRIST, OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**
Jesus is **WORSHIPED** many times in God's Word in Matthew 2:2,8,11; 14:33; 28:9,17 Luke 24:52 John 9:38 and Revelation 5:11-14 and !5:4!!
Matthew 2:10,11: When the Wise Men saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the Child with His mother Mary, and they bowed down and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 14:33; Then those who were in the boat **WORSHPED HIM**!!
Matthew 28:8,9: So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell His disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," He said. They came to Him, clasped His feet and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 28:16,17: Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When the saw Him, they **WORSHIPED HIM**!
There are some who completely ignore these Scriptures and claim that Jesus is not God because he said that the Father is greater than me in John 14:28 and that the Father told Him what to say as per John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. The words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me."
John 9:37,38: Jesus said, "You have now seen Him; in fact, He is the one speaking with you!" Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he **WORSHIPED HIM**!
NOTE: Jesus is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation!
Revelation 5:13,14: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, an all that is In them, saying "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**!
Revelation 17:14; They will wage war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be **HIS** **CALLED**, *CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
