Ya'll Christians have so many bizarre beliefs, I often hesitate to call myself one of ya'll. One such belief is Old Testament sacrifices used to forgive sin.---------------------------------------------
So let me tell you a story, and then you can tell me.-----------------------------
There was a man who fancied his neighbors wife. He had sex with her once a week the day her husband was out of town. Because the man was rich, he could afford once a week to sacrifice a lamb or goat. He figured the sex was worth the price of a sacrifice -------------------------------------So what do you think - Was this man forgiven by God?
I'm just going to give me two cents here for what it's worth, and hopefully it doesn't impair whatever conversation is going on with prophetic.
First, we need to know what sin is. It's transgression of the law.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Sin is covered by sacrifice, but not our sacrifice. The Blood of the Lamb.
Heb 9:24-28 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Forgiveness is relational. He sacrificed, but we must be repentant.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Forgiveness isn't just covering, it's removing and forgetting.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Sin is forgotten.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
It's also important to understand the relationship between our sins and God. It is contrary to His existence, and He does not behold it.
Hab 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?
So it's not just sacrifice, but it's a lot of other things that makes forgiveness relational. It other words, we are eliminating our rebellion and reconciling ourselves in the sight of the Lord. It needs to happen this way, as God does not behold sin, so the stain must be completely removed and cast into nothing and forgotten.
Of course there is more that can be said about it, but that's where I'm stopping before I crash for the night. God bless.
The intentions of the heart is what Yahuwah looks at.
JPS Tanakh 1917
"As for the sacrifices that are made by fire unto Me, Let them sacrifice flesh and eat it, For the LORD accepteth them not. Now will He remember their iniquity, and punish their sins; They shall return to Egypt."
The sacrifices in the OT was a Substitute for before Jesus Christ blood was shed on the Cross for All sins of Mankind. After Jesus shed blood, there was no more need for people to sacrifice any animal. Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb for all of us.
"It is Finished ", was Jesus last words when he died on the Cross.
Jesus is All a person needs in their life to live eternally with Him !
"According to Orthodox Judaism, **SACRIFICES NEVER FORGIVE SIN**"???.
Isaiah 53:5-6: But He pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on Him, and by His wounds we are healed. we all like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!!
**WE ARE ONLY REDEEEMED AND OUR SINS FORGIVEN BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST??**
John 13:34,35: Jesus says, "**A NEW COMMAND** I give you: Love one another **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**, so you must love one another!" John 15:12,13: "Jesus says, "My command is this: Love each other **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**. Greater love has no one than this, that **HE LAY DOWN HIS LIFE** for his friends!"
Matthew 26:28: Jesus says, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many **FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**!"
Galatians 2:18-21: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! The life I live in the body, I live by **FAITH** in the Son of God, who loved me and **GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME**!! I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!!
Hebrews 9:12: He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by **HIS OWN BLOOD**, having obtained **ETERNAL REDEMPTION**!
Hebrews 9:22; 26-28: The law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood **THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS**.... But now He has appeared **ONCE FOR ALL** at the end of the ages to do away with sin **BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**!! Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, and Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!!
Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them," although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first **TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND**. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ **ONCE FOR ALL**!!
Romans 3:21-25: But now a righteousness from God, **APART FROM THE LAW**, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes **THROUGH FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by **HIS GRACE** through the **REDEMPTION** that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a **SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT**, **THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD**!!
Colossians 2:13-15: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you **ALIVE WITH CHRIST**. He forgave us **ALL OUR SINS**, having canceled the written code, with its regulation, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, He took it away, **NAILNG IT TO THE CROSS**!!.
Ephesians 1:3-8; 11: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with **EVERY** spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and **BLAMELESS** in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His **GLORIOUS GRACE**, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, **THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!
I Peter 1:18,19: For you know that was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you by your forefathers, but with the **PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, Lamb without blemish or defect!!
I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself **BORE OUR SINS** in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness, by **HIS WOUNDS** we are healed {See Isaiah 53:5,6}!! For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!!
I Peter 3:18 For Christ **DIED FOR SINS ONCE FOR ALL**, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God!!
I John 2:1,2: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have One who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the **ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS**, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world!!
I John 4:10-12: This is **LOVE**, not that we loved God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as an **ATONING SACRIFICE** for our sins.
Revelation 1:4,5: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful Witness... To Him who loves us and freed us from our sins **BY HIS BLOOD**!!
NOTE: Jesus Christ our Savior is called the **LAMB** of God **30 TIMES** in the book of Revelation because He did away with all lamb sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!
Revelation 5:6,9: Then I saw a **LAMB**, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne...You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because You were slain, and **WITH YOUR BLOOD** You purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!
Romans 5:6-10: You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless. Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners Christ died for us. Since we are now justified **BY HIS BLOOD**, how much more will we be saved from God's wrath through Him! When we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him **THROUGH THE DEATH OF HIS SON**!!
I'm sure you probably heard the following quote often attributed to Albert Einstein (but with some objection).
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
So with that being said, may I ask what it is exactly you're trying to accomplish on here? Also, what purpose does it serve to continually post the same information? Wouldn't it be easier to get your point across of you provided new and pertinent to the statements of others?
I say this because on occasion you make very good points, like you did when we were discussing Joseph, but then things start to get lost in a pile of information that was applicable to a previous response by someone.
It can make it difficult to follow you and your line of thought.
"According to Orthodox Judaism, **SACRIFICES NEVER FORGIVE SIN**"???.
Isaiah 53:5-6: But He pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on Him, and by His wounds we are healed. we all like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all!!
**WE ARE ONLY REDEEEMED AND OUR SINS FORGIVEN BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST??**
John 13:34,35: Jesus says, "**A NEW COMMAND** I give you: Love one another **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**, so you must love one another!" John 15:12,13: "Jesus says, "My command is this: Love each other **AS I HAVE LOVED YOU**. Greater love has no one than this, that **HE LAY DOWN HIS LIFE** for his friends!"
Matthew 26:28: Jesus says, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many **FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**!"
Galatians 2:18-21: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! The life I live in the body, I live by **FAITH** in the Son of God, who loved me and **GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME**!! I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!!
Hebrews 9:12: He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by **HIS OWN BLOOD**, having obtained **ETERNAL REDEMPTION**!
Hebrews 9:22; 26-28: The law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood **THERE IS NO FORGIVENESS**.... But now He has appeared **ONCE FOR ALL** at the end of the ages to do away with sin **BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF**!! Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, and Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!!
Hebrews 10:8-10: First He said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor were You pleased with them," although the law required them to be made. Then He said, "Here I am, I have come to do Your will." He sets aside the first **TO ESTABLISH THE SECOND**. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ **ONCE FOR ALL**!!
Romans 3:21-25: But now a righteousness from God, **APART FROM THE LAW**, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes **THROUGH FAITH** in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by **HIS GRACE** through the **REDEMPTION** that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a **SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT**, **THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD**!!
Colossians 2:13-15: When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you **ALIVE WITH CHRIST**. He forgave us **ALL OUR SINS**, having canceled the written code, with its regulation, that was against us and that stood opposed to us, He took it away, **NAILNG IT TO THE CROSS**!!.
Ephesians 1:3-8; 11: Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with **EVERY** spiritual blessing in Christ. For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and **BLAMELESS** in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His **GLORIOUS GRACE**, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. In Him we have **REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD**, **THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS**, in accordance the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding!!
I Peter 1:18,19: For you know that was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were **REDEEMED** from the empty way of life handed down to you by your forefathers, but with the **PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST**, Lamb without blemish or defect!!
I Peter 2:24,25: He Himself **BORE OUR SINS** in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness, by **HIS WOUNDS** we are healed {See Isaiah 53:5,6}!! For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!!
I Peter 3:18 For Christ **DIED FOR SINS ONCE FOR ALL**, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God!!
I John 2:1,2: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have One who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the **ATONING SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS**, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world!!
I John 4:10-12: This is **LOVE**, not that we loved God, but that He **LOVED** us and sent His Son as an **ATONING SACRIFICE** for our sins.
Revelation 1:4,5: Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful Witness... To Him who loves us and freed us from our sins **BY HIS BLOOD**!!
NOTE: Jesus Christ our Savior is called the **LAMB** of God **30 TIMES** in the book of Revelation because He did away with all lamb sacrifices for sin by the sacrifice of Himself!!
Revelation 5:6,9: Then I saw a **LAMB**, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne...You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because You were slain, and **WITH YOUR BLOOD** You purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation!!
Romans 5:6-10: You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless. Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates His love for us in this: While we were still sinners Christ died for us. Since we are now justified **BY HIS BLOOD**, how much more will we be saved from God's wrath through Him! When we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to Him **THROUGH THE DEATH OF HIS SON**!!
No one could simply answer the question; "Was this man forgiven?"
A child could easily answer this question!
But as the answers above show, Christians have traded their childlike understanding of God for a maze of systematic theology, doctrines, creeds, formulas and scripture harmonization. All which must be protected at all cost, even at the cost of understanding simple truth like a child.
The answer is: No the man was not forgiven because he was not repentant.
This now brings us to another question closer to home: The sacrifice of Jesus. Can you answer this:
Does the sacrifice of Jesus forgive sin even if there is no repentance?
*Note (admittedly TOTH gave the answer in a round about way. But it was not a simple answer, because it seems he too felt the need to engage the legalities of Scripture.)
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE WHILE ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED**!!
Chuckles and Satan teach that we are saved by our **GOOD WORKS** and keeping OT Laws??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE**
Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
Romans 12:3: For by the **GRACE GIVEN ME** I say to every one of you. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourselves with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH GOD HAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH OF YOU**... We have different gifts, according to the **GRACE GIVEN TO EACH OF US**!!
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Mar 13:20: Jesus says, "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no on would survive, but for the sake of the **ELECT**, whom He has **CHOSEN, He has shortened them!"
{The Lord has shortened the Great Tribulation from 3 1/2 years or 1278 days to 1260 days}
John 13:18: Jesus says, "I am not referring to all of you, I know those I have **CHOSEN**!
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!
I Thessalonians 1:4: For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has **CHOSEN YOU**, because our Gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is **ETERNAL LIFE**!
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
