If your not - start a thread on Paul. I'll meet you there.
But be prepared to be schooled!
Fair warning,
Paul may technically considered a Apostle to the Gentiles as in "messenger" But no way is he an Apostle in the same way the 12 are, Nor does he meet the qualifications the 12 Apostles defined as requirements of a Apostle.
Proceed at your own risk.
End quote
I know you are Messianic.. I know you keep the feast when we discussed it once when you was in here as Sadlup. (I prefer that username by the way , it suits your style and personality- love it!)
I am having a parallel discussion with another member on another thread simutaneously...so here is what I posted tonight.
The question presented to me was as follows:
"If Paul was teaching against the keeping of Torah why would he take part in any sacrifice, or take a vow that has it's roots in the Torah? "
Paul circumcised Timothy so that both of them would be received and be heard since Jews and Gentiles were not to co-mingle as the law forbid it and Timothy was a Greek. . It was necessary even though circumcision was not applicable at that time post cross. It was all about evangelizing the masses.
The Jerusalem brethren explained to Paul that thousands of Jews had “believed,” i.e., they had been converted to Christ.
Though these multitudes had become Christians, they had not arrived at the full realization that the introduction of Christianity made the law of Moses inoperative as a redemptive system. Accordingly, these new Christians still circumcised their children (as a covenant sign), and they observed many of the “customs” of the Mosaic regime.
Here was the problem: a report had been circulated widely that Paul went about constantly teaching that Jews, especially those who lived in Gentile lands, should “forsake,” (apostasia –. “apostasy”) Moses. “Moses” stands for the Old Testament economy. They apparently had concluded that Paul opposed any sort of connection with the Hebrew system, which was not true.
The Jewish antagonists were bound to hear that Paul was in Jerusalem, and there would be trouble. The following solution, therefore, was proposed. There were four Hebrew men who had placed themselves under a vow (likely a Nazarite vow). It was near the time for that ritual to be consummated by a purification ceremony in the temple. It was suggested, therefore, that Paul identify with them, paying their temple fees, and, “purifying” himself along with them. Such a procedure was allowed under the law. This would be done so that the Jews in general might see that Paul was “walking orderly, observing the law.” Gentiles, of course, were under no such constraints, as indeed the conference in Jerusalem had established
Not only were the four “purified,” but so was Paul—though likely not for the same reason. There is no evidence that the apostle was under a vow. However, since he recently had been in Gentile territory, he would be viewed as ceremonially “unclean,” hence would need to purify himself in order to partake with the others.
Paul’s teaching on the abolition of the law had been clear and definitive ( 2 Cor. 3; Rom. 7; Gal. 5).
It should be noted in passing that ceremonial “purification” did not necessarily involve atonement for personal sin. A Jewish woman had to be “purified” following the birth of a child (Lev. 12:1, Lk. 2:22), even though the act of bearing a child is not sinful. Paul’s act of “purification,” therefore, need not suggest that he was seeking personal forgiveness by means of an animal sacrifice. Clearly that was not Paul’s purpose in this temple ritual.
Just before He died, when the Father forsook Him (Matthew 27:46), our sins were symbolically nailed to the cross in His body. "Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed" (I Peter 2:24). At the time of His crucifixion, Jesus Christ became sin for us.
I think the moral law still stands but not the ceremonial laws.
The Ten Commandments God gave to Moses and the Israelites, He also engraved it into every person's heart. As Paul says in Romans 2, “for when Gentiles (non-Jews) do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts (14-15, NKJV).
Google
Trespass:
ARCHAIC•LITERARY
commit an offense against (a person or a set of rules).
"a man who had trespassed against Judaic law"
ARCHAIC•LITERARY
>>>a sin or offense.<<
Strong's concordance:
Trespass
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ap'-to-mah)
Definition: a false step, a trespass
Usage: a falling away, lapse, slip, false step, trespass, >>>sin<<<
Strong's Concordance
Ordinances:
dogmatizó: to decree, >>>to subject oneself to an ordinance<<<
Original Word: δογματίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dogmatizó
Phonetic Spelling: (dog-mat-id'-zo)
Definition: to decree, to subject oneself to an ordinance
Usage: I subject to>>> regulations<<<, decree; mid: I subject myself to regulations, am decree-ridden.
δογματίζω: to decree, command, enjoin, lay down an ordinance: Diodorus 4, 83, etc.; Esther 3:9; 2 Macc. 10:8 (etc.); the Sept. (not Theod.) Daniel 2:13; passive (present δογματίζομαι); ordinances are imposed upon me, I suffer ordinances to be imposed upon me: Colossians 2:20 (R. V. do ye subject yourselves to ordinances; 150, Winers Grammar, § 39, 1 a.; Buttmann, 188 (163) Meyer or Lightfoot at the passage).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
be subject to ordinances.
From dogma; to prescribe by statute, i.e. (reflexively) to submit to, >>>>ceremonially rule -- be subject to ordinances<<<<<<<
see GREEK dogma
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
contrary
: or hephek {hay'-fek}; from haphak; a turn, i.e. The reverse -- contrary.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all>>> trespasses<<<; 14 blotting out the>>>> handwriting of ordinances<<<< that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
New American Standard Bible
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
New King James Version
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
King James Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Christian Standard Bible
He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.
Contemporary English Version
God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross.
Good News Translation
he canceled the unfavorable record of our debts with its binding rules and did away with it completely by nailing it to the cross.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 2:20
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to >>>ordinances,<<< 21 (touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
"Please give me the scripture that tells us Passover was nailed to the cross. "
End quote
You asked for scripture, but what about the fact that there was the moral law.. Let's call it Law no. 1...The Royal law, then the Law that was put into place for breaking the first one . Law no. 2...
So, if a man sinned he broke Law no. 1 (Royal law-10 commandments)
Sin is the transgression of the moral law .
Law no. 2 was established for a remedy for sin in the ceremonial/sacrificial law which must be obeyed.
the true Passover Lamb bowed His head and died and cried out, "It is finished", the old Ceremonial law that pointed the people to His sacrificial death was nailed to the cross. Jesus is now the permanent remedy for when we break LAW No. 1.
When He died on the cross of Calvary, the veil of the great temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, to signify that the entire ceremonial system was forever finished. No longer do the priests need offer up sacrifices
Colossians 2:14 reads, "blotting out the handwriting (has to be Moses handwriting) of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross."
The obvious differences between the Ten Commandments and the ordinances of the ceremonial law are that the Commandments were written by God's finger, were written in stone and were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant and it is a law of love which is eternal as love is eternal as God is and is why we were created. The ordinances were in Moses handwriting, were written in a book and were placed on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant and it is NOT a law of love and was temporary.
All the various Holy days and festivals being spoken of involved days that took place at various times of the year as well as yearly Holy days such as the Day of Atonement -Yom Kippur and monthly such as the New Moon celebrations . As these were all a shadow of things to come and those things have past and the shadows are now gone, to still observe these days would be putting us back into unnecessary bondage. This is what Paul is talking about in Galatians 4:9-10 which says, "But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years." Paul is obviously and definitely not saying you can just simply ignore anything that is a day, month or year in the Bible. He is referring to something in Galatians 4:10 that includes all of these things, which is and can only be the ceremonial law.
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat [offerings], or in drink [offerings], or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
Now switch to the OT:
Ezekiel 45:17 "And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, [holydays] and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel."
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
The other day I get a text that was partially translated and guess what the message was?
"Top to bottom". That was all.
Dumb phone sometimes doesn't translate all my messages. Well, that is because it is not a smartphone.
I asked all my friends if they sent it because one is remodeling his kitchen. I figured it was something to do with that. Some measurement.
No one had texted me.
Days later I posted the scripture above and went to bed. Today , I get on the forum and re-read my post and it stood out so clear to me. Top to bottom. I started to cry.
Think someone from above was trying to get my attention?? I have been quite out of it lately. Sleep deprivation, etc.
I think so.
I have had these kind of things happen from time to time. I am getting used to it.
Is it a coincidence that 2 messianic members are on the forum here during the same week and I am on 2 threads about the same subject simultaneously with both of them .
Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.
James 1:18; He chose to give us **BIRTH THROUGH THE WORD** of Truth!!
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
John 17:17: Jesus prays to His Father, "Sanctify them by the Truth, **YOUR WORD IS TRUTH**!"
Ephesians 2:17: Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the **WORD OF GOD**!
2 Timothy 3:15,16: 4:1,2: You have known the **HOLY SCRIPTURES**, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. **ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**!! {**WHICH IS THE ENTIRE NEW COVENANT AND NEW TESTAMENT**!!}
Acts 22:24:15: Ananias said to Paul, "The God of our ancestors has **CHOSEN YOU** to **KNOW HIS WILL** and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from His mouth. **YOU WILL BE HIS WITNESS TO ALL PEOPLE** of what you have seen and heard.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord Jesus said to Paul, "Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you and **APPOINTED YOU** AS A SERVANTAND AS A WITNESS OF WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME**! I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn then from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they my receive **FORGIVENESS OF SINS** and a place among those who **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN ME**!"
Acts 9:15: The Lord Jesus said to Ananias, "This man {PAUL} is **MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel!"
Acts 20:27: Paul said, "For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the **WHOLE WILL OF GOD**!"
chuckles like Satan claims the above 4 Scriptures that God inspired Luke to write are lies, thus making God a liar. These are definitely unpardonable sins which will earn chuckles eternal torment in hell.
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, {Like chuckles and Satan} as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!{Which would be eternal torment in hell}
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My words, the very words I have spoken {In Acts 9:15 & Acts 26:16-18 above} will condemn them at the Last Day!"
