"That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past."
This verse has always stumped me - I just don't get it. I've read many different commentaries, but once I think I have my mind wrapped around it, I don't get it again.
Can anyone explain? (Use small words and type sloooooow...)
"That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past."
the version i'm looking at:
Whatever is has already been, and what will be has been before; and God will call the past to account. (TNIV)
Sometimes it helps me to look at different versions and try to make since of it. When I first read it I was kind of like umm...not quite sure about this. When I thought about it and broke it down into pieces I kind of understood it a little more I think.
Take the first part "That which hath been is now..." or "Whatever is has already been...". That seems like its saying that everything that is happening has already happened before and that its just being repeated.
The next part "...and that which is to be hath already been..." or "...and what will be has been before...". I think thats just putting into different words the first part. That what is coming has already happened.
The last part "...and God requireth that which is past..." or "...and God will call the past to account...". That I believe is saying that the past is accounted for when needed. I think that ones a little more up in the air in my mind where its going.
Maybe that will help. Anyone else see it different, I'm willing to listening and talk about. Who knows if I see it right.
"I recognized that whatever God does will endure forever; there is no adding to it, or taking from it. Thus has God done that he may be revered. What now is has already been; what is to be, already is; and God restores what would otherwise be displaced."
with the footnote:
"God restores: the meaning is probably that God allows no part of his creation to drop out of existence
So, it's saying that God's works are immune to time, never fading away or changing as time goes on.
Y'know - I went back and looked at the context; it didn't seem to be any clearer. It's referring to God's works; but who is, and was, and forever more shall be, also works - in the past, present and future.
Perhaps, like prophecy, etc... - time is a creation; God steps into or out of time, and thus the past, present and future are all one thing?
Am I just confusing the issue and trying to be too deep?
This is a very good verse to ponder. I think the more try to pick it apart and read through more of it I just end up not knowing where it is going. I was discussing it with a friend, and at what point I'm like 'prophecy' but not really sure where I was going.
"So, it's saying that God's works are immune to time, never fading away or changing as time goes on. "
The understanding of Ecc. 3:15 is rather easy when you consider, the whole book uses language like this.
We find almost the same identical quote in 1:9, "That which has been is what will be, that which is done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun." 10. "Is there anything of which it may be said, 'See, this is new'? It has already been in ancient times before us."
This book could be surnamed, "Nothing New Under the Sun."
Solomon, assuming he wrote this book, uses examples in verses 1:5-7. My favorite example is in verse 7, "All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full; to the place from which the rivers come, there they return again." How does this happen? That's easy. Rain. It rains in high places, and the water flows in streams, and when they join with other streams, they become creeks. Eventually, the water from all the tributaries flow into the rivers, and the rivers flow into the oceans. Then the water gets evaporated, forming clouds. The clouds move over the land, and when the conditions are right (wind direction causing a lifting mechanism called a low pressure center) it precipitates. The temperature at the various levels of the atmosphere determines what variety of precipitation it will be. And, the cycle starts all over again.
We can see the same thing in today's political climate. Barack Obama is taking us at warp speed into fascism. This is where businesses and property is owned by the private sector, but the government controls it. Well, what is happening now in this country, has happened in history. What is now, already was.
Ecclesiastes is full of this kind of thing.
I am sure some of you have heard, "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." Well, we find the same warning in 1:11, "There is no remembrance of former things, nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those who will come after."
We find the same warning in 2:16, "For there is no more remembrance of the wise than the fool forever, since all that now is will be forgotten in the days to come. And how does the wise man die? As the fool!"
I hope this sheds some light on the meaning of Ecc. 3:15.
What is happening now has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again.
Have you ever heard the phrase " there's nothing new under the sun ". I think that's what this verse is talking about. Take heart in knowing that whatever it is that you're going through, others have already been through it and with God's help made it through.
The part about God makes things happen over and over again. I wonder if he does that in the hopes that someday we'll get it right!!!!:excited:
i am thinking that this is of the same kind of line of thinking as in chapter 1:9...the verse is almost identical, however at the end of the verse in chapter one the author states "there is nothing new under the sun".
taken in context of the whole book and the general kind of "meaningless, useless, there's no point to trying" feel that it gives for the most part, and also knowing that our world is a world designed to run on cycles...everything has a cycle...the sun, moon and stars, the oceans, seasons, days, weeks, even climate and knowledge and technology have cycled up and down since the fall - i would hazard a guess that the writer (solomon according to most scholars...if memory serves correctly - also see 1:1) was going through some form of depression adn succumbed to a feeling of worthlessness fueled in part by knowing that the world would go on, nations would rise and fall, technology would come and go, and so on...and that his part in it was seemingly insignificant and he could do little if anything to leave any kind of lasting mark on the world.
i dont know if that makes any sense to any of you, but it makes sense in my head! lol...
one other possibility, more for the potential interesting discussion that anything...
he could be referring to the fact that god is above/beyond/outside of time...time is something that god created for us when he created the world - therefore from god's point of view (and this is a tough one to wrap your head around) and actually in reality - everything that has yet to happen could be said to have already happened and by the same token everything that is now could be said to have already been....i dont actually believe that thats what this verse/passage is referring to, but i do believe that this is the case....time was created for us and this world....as far as god is concerned, time doesnt matter...almost as if it doesnt exist. god is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent...he created the world in 6 days using the spoken word....and he resides in eternity...it doesnt seem that far fetched to me that he is outside of time and can "access" the past, present or future...
anyway, im sure that that last bit makes me sound just a little bit crazy...i promise you im not! lol...looking forward to hearing thoughts.
