Thread: Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
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Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 29 Sep, 2017 10:23 PM
I think respectful debates are honorable, challenging and useful exercises of the mind... whereas, to fall into childish, dead-end arguments with one who hopes to win a debate by declaring 'because I said so'... or 'because Tynedale said so'... or 'because Spurgeon said so'... or 'Luther'... etc.. etc.. etc... (place any name in the sentence you might choose)... is a waste of time... So I would like to see what others have to say - but it must be backed up by solid scripture - presented accurately within the context, of the line of meaningful thought of the passages wherein the verse(s) are found... Anyone interested in such a discussion?
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 30 Sep, 2017 04:33 AM
Hello
Yes, the truth seeker is at it again.
In the New Covenant there are more 'apostles' then the eleven Messiah had chosen, and Paul.
The English word 'apostle' comes from the Greek word 'apostello' which means 'sent one', with Messiah being the CHIEF Apostle;John the baptizer also is 'apostello, or a sent one as well as any person being a believer in Messiah Yeshua ( Matthew 28: 8-20 )
The sheeple usually believe what the so called pastors tell them, without even researching the Word of GOD for themselves in order to know the truth that could set them free.
I will show this with the context of the Word of GOD Almighty when i return from havig breakfast.
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 30 Sep, 2017 06:01 PM
1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
3 My defense to those who examine me is this: 4Do we not have a right to eat and drink? 5Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working? 7Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 30 Sep, 2017 07:55 PM
Hi there - I enjoy reading your thoughts as I pass through the various threads... I should have been more succinct in my question - sorry about that...
What I was intent upon putting forth as a debatable topic had to do with more along the lines of 'Was Paul arguably of the same position, level, and authority, as those who were specifically designated as 'disciples/apostles of our Saviour' and by our Saviour - appointed during Messiah's lifetime?
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 30 Sep, 2017 08:06 PM
Well look at these two verses: 1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
My challenge would be concerning this: Does this meet the criteria set forth for establishing something as being 'true' according to the Word of God?... a man was specifically forbidden by both the Word and the Pharisaical authorities, of 'bearing witness of himself'... so this cannot be used as it does not meet the standard - and even Paul knew this, being a Pharisee...
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 1 Oct, 2017 05:29 AM
Hello Woman. hehe
There is one section of the Word of GOD Almighty where Messiah says that He had chosen Paul to carry His name to others.
Acts 9 verses 1- 17
Act 9:1
Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest,
Act 9:2
and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Act 9:3
As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Act 9:4
and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
Act 9:5
And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Act 9:6
but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.”
Act 9:7
The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Act 9:8
Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Act 9:9
And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
Act 9:10
Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
Act 9:11
And the Lord said to him, “Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,
Act 9:12
and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.”
Act 9:13
But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem;
Act 9:14
and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
Act 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Act 9:16
for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
Act 9:17
So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit".
In this section of the Word of GOD( v 15) we have Messiah saying to Ananias that Paul was a hand picked instrument / vessel to CARRY His name to the Gentiles, kings and people of Israel.
In Acts 1 verse 26 Matthias was chosen, not personally by Messiah, instead the men had chosen lots or numbers with the lot falling to Mathias.
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 1 Oct, 2017 10:12 AM
No there are some false teachers who claim that: Luke told the story of the vision Paul claimed to have on the road to Damascus and every time Luke told the story the details changed.
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**?? Some things were added but there are **NO CONTRADICTIONS**!!
Acts 9:3-5; 15-17: As he {Saul or Paul} neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. he fell to the ground and heard a Voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?" "Who are you Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting," He replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.".... The Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is **MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT** to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel." Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, The Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit!.
Paul called himself an **APOSTLE** 17 times in God's Word including: I Timothy 1:1: Paul, an **APOSTLE** of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus, our hope!!
Acts 22:6-15: Saul {Paul} said, "About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a Voice say to me. 'Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me?'" "Who are you Lord?" I asked. "I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting," He replied. "What shall I do Lord?" I asked. "Get up," the Lord said, "And go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do." "A man named Ananias came to see me. He stood beside me and said, 'Brother Saul, receive tour sight.' And that moment I was able to see him "Then he said: "The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from His mouth. You will be His witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.'"
Acts 26:13-18: I was going to Damascus. About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me. We all fell to the ground, and I heard a Voice saying to me, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? Then I asked, "Who are you Lord?" "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," the Lord replied. "I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in Me!"
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL** also wrote to you with the **WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**. He writes in the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people {Like TNT} distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction!!
Luke also was inspired to call Paul an **APOSTLE** in Acts 14:3,4,14!!
Revelation 21:14: The wall of the City {The New Jerusalem} had 12 foundations. and on them were the names of the 12 **APOSTLES OF THE LAMB**!! {Which would include Paul instead of Judas!!}
The 11 Apostles chose Matthias to be the 12th Apostle by LOT in Acts 1:26. However, according too God's Word only Jesus can choose His **APOSTLES:
John 15:16: Jesus said to his **APOSTLES** "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in My name the Father will give you!!"
Ephesians 4:7,11-13: But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it... So Christ gave some to be **APOSTLES**, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists and some to be pastors and teachers, to equip His people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ!!
Was Paul an Apostle? Can you actually prove, or disprove it, with scripture
Posted : 4 Oct, 2017 10:12 PM
The eleven disciples lived with Jesus for a couple of years, and they were taught by Him. They had a chance to observe His every move. They listened to all His preachings. They were with Him at every miracle. This same thing cannot be said about Paul who was taught as a Jewish Rabbi and got to know Jesus from others. So, his knowledge of Jesus was based on word-of-mouth knowledge, not written word because there was no New Testament written back then. And it was not observed through years of study. The twelve disciples Jesus chose originally were like students in the best Bible school in the world, taught by Jesus Himself. And He said in Luke 10:24, "for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it." If you want to know my personal opinion, it is this : I think, it makes a BIG difference whether you get to know Jesus PERSONALLY or through another person who just tells you about Him!
