First off, I do not have the answer for this - it was brought to my attention by a brother and I'm just interested to see what everyone thinks. (Maybe shed some light for me?)
Luke 23:43 "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Where is paradise? When I was asked this, I immediately said Heaven. However, that can't be right. Jesus didn't go to Heaven for three days.
One commentary I read stated that punctuation was not originally used in the inspired Greek in which Luke wrote. The comma was inserted later, and should have been placed after the word "today." That would make the text read, "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise." The commentator thought that Jesus was stressing the time of his promise - not the time he would be in paradise.
Anyway, just curious what others perception of this verse is.
You know, I never caught that. Maybe its something as simple as once you pass from earth, you are in eternity and Jesus didnt mean like a literal day cause in heaven I am not sure if there is time like we know it anymore. So as soon as the dude was there in heaven, It woulda been like Jesus was there right away too? Cant really put earthly limits or understanding on something in heaven? especially as it is now, cause its not the new heavens and the eart yet either.
Ephesians 4:8,9 Wherefore he saith, When He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also decended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Paradise was a place where souls went before Jesus came to earth. Paradise and a place of torment were together in Hades or Sheol. They were devided by a great gulf. At the Resurrection, Jesus took the Old Testament Saints into Heaven.
Well, no, you had it right. Paradise is speaking of Heaven. Jesus said, "It is finished," on the cross, meaning that he had finished paying for our sins (physically I might add, since he is not contained by time, but He uses it to explain things to our time-consumed thoughts). The whole ordeal of being punished by his own people, the physical Israel, Jews, was to make a statement. How bad must you be that your own want you dead? And yet he was pure the entire way. He paid the punishment, just as the saved would have by their Father had He not sent His son down (descended) to Earth.
It could be, but I don't really know. My Mom was raised Catholic, but I wasn't. So during my childhood I heard reference to purgitory. I never really understood it.
dearfolks, it is my belief that yes the thiefs spirit went to heaven upon his death. same as when JESUS committed HIS spirit to GOD right before HE breathed HIS last.
luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit." Having said this, He breathed His last.
also if we look at lazarus s death and the rich mans death we can see when the beggar lazarus died he was carried away by the angels to abrahams bosom. where do ya recon abraham was, in heaven with GOD.. it says he was comforted. notice it says comforted and not bein tortued..
as for the rich man who died and was bein tormented in hades .. it says he looked up and seen abraham and lazarus.. where is heaven? up yes?
luke 16:22-25 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
Luke 23:43 "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."
Where is paradise? When I was asked this, I immediately said Heaven. However, that can't be right. Jesus didn't go to Heaven for three days.
One commentary I read stated that punctuation was not originally used in the inspired Greek in which Luke wrote. The comma was inserted later, and should have been placed after the word "today." That would make the text read, "Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."
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The word for "Paradise," is used three times in the NT. And while I personally believe it to be a spiritual place without limits of time, it is also wise
to look at the context in the other two passages.
2 Corinthians 12:2-4,
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know,
God knows--such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
And I know such a man--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--
how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
When Paul speaks in the third person here he is likely talking about his own experiences of being "in the Spirit" and he hears a kind of speaking in tongues,
probably of angels, that man cannot speak. And whether Paradise and the third heaven are one and the same we should be content with Paul's own answer
"I do not know, God knows."
And Revelation 2:7,
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."
We know from Revelation 21 & 22 the Tree of life was located in the New Jerusalem which came down from heaven.Paradise is therefore in heaven and the New Jerusalem is The Lord Jesus Christ bringing His Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. And wherever the
King goes, to set captives free, His Kingdom goes with Him. Therefore when Jesus said it is finished, Paradise, Heaven on earth, and captives set free
all happened as a result of the work of the Cross.
I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
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Sandy asks,
If the captives were in Heaven, then why did they have to be set free?
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That is a great question, Sandy and is given special emphasis because it is found in both the Old and New Testaments.
When a verse is written in quotes or italics it usually means it is being quoted from another Passage in the Bible.
(Compare Ephesians 4:8 with Psalm 68:18.)
Paul explains more in Ephesians 4:7-11.
Ephesians 4:7-11,
"7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ�s gift.
8 Therefore He says:
� When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.�
9 (Now this, �He ascended� what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,"
Ephesians 4:7-11 tells how Jesus gives a measure of Grace as gifts (Merry Christmas) for the thief on the cross ansd which also include the Holy Spirit, salvation (Today) and salvation (at the Cross) from the "lower parts of the earth" and ministries to build the church, then and now, until His return.
Eph 4:8 is a quote taken from Psalm 68:18 and
Psalm 68:18 says
"You have ascended on high,
You have led captivity captive;
You have received gifts among men,
Even from the rebellious,
That the LORD God might dwell there."
Wherever the presence of the Lord is, His kingdom is there. Because He holds the keys of death and hell and hell cannot prevail against Him.
It says that when He led captivity captive that He "descended into the lower parts of the earth."
The remainder of Ephesians 4 is worthy of note. Paul was a very learned Pharisee when Jesus converted him on the road to Damascus. After Paul got "Saved" his eyes were opened, physically and spiritually, and he was able to understand more fully the Word of God.
Ephesians 4:11-32,
"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head�Christ�
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[d] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, � Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,�[Zechariah 8:16] for we are members of one another.
26 �Be angry, and do not sin�:[Psalm 4:4] do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
