Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 15 Nov, 2015 01:29 PM
It was suggested that Moses provided a number of reasons why it was okay to divorce and remarry. What those who offer comments about what Moses said fail to grasp, is that Jesus said Moses was wrong, and explicitly stated the correct guidelines. He very clearly said we are not to follow the practice of Moses, because that is not God's plan, and never was God's plan for our lives, and we are not to divorce.
There is no way to use Moses to justify a divorce today. That would be calling Jesus Christ, Almighty God in the flesh, a liar.
I repeat, the fallacy of any arguments for divorce, based on what Moses said, is this simple. Jesus overruled what Moses said very succinctly.
His answer to the pharisees was this. From the beginning of time, it was not the Father's plan for marriage to end in divorce. So stop it. Do not separate what God had joined together. Just like the Holy Spirit is witness to every sin of every believer, but does not participate in it, God is witness and joins every marriage together by operation of nature which God created, and by operation of His spiritual laws as well. As it says in 1 Corinthians 6, those who have sex become one flesh, even if not married. So in that sense, He joins all in marriage.
To the pharisees, Jesus said no divorce, and He offered no exception, so that there would be no misunderstanding among the Pharisees. Matthew 10
To the disciples, when they inquired privately, Jesus said, (I'm paraphrasing here) Hey, you know my earthly mother and father? Only in Joseph's situation can you divorce, marry another, and not commit adultery. That is because of the special bethrothal period unique to the Jews, where, though considered married, they did not consummate the marriage until a year had passed to make sure the woman was sexually pure. Only for porneia could a man divorce his wife, before consummation of the marriage. And only when he divorced her for that reason, could he marry another, and not commit adultery. If you divorce for any other reason, or after consummation, you commit marital adultery (moxitai).
Jesus was specific. He said for porneia , not for moxtitai (marital adultery) you could divorce, marry another, and not commit adultery. This one exception in all of scripture is not repeated in Mark 10, written to the Romans, nor in Luke 16:18, which was written to the Greeks. They had no such similar situation, and there is a bottom line statement in both Mark and Luke that if you divorce your wife and marry another, you commit adultery (moxitai) without exception.
Why do you think the disciples went into a panic and said that it was better then that nobody get married? They got it! They understood the rigid standard Christ just gave them. And it sent them into a tizzy. Just like most who read this today will freak out, they freaked out. But God Himself told them in person the unambiguous standard, that does not allow for divorce once the marriage is consummated. No divorce for the consummated marriage.
God never contradicts Himself, and He didn't when He gave the Jews the one extremely narrow exception, but gave the Romans and the Greeks no exceptions. There was a significant difference in cultural practices which made then entirely different situation.
Whatever reasons you might think that God allows based on what Moses said, God in the flesh said Moses got it wrong, and to stop with the divorce of any consummated marriage.
Further, God says to the one who goes to Court and obtains a divorce, Do not marry another, but hold yourself ready for reconciliation or stay unmarried. 1 Corinthians 7:10-11.
There are no exceptions here either, cultural or otherwise. There isn't an expiration date, where if you wait so long, the prohibition changes. He doesn't say there is an exception if the person marries another; the command to stay unmarried remains. You will not benefit by the other person marrying because you caused the situation; you are the one who violated God's command to stay married and put them away.
These three commands are involved here.
1. Do not divorce.
2. Do not commit adultery.
3. Do not marry another (unless your spouse has died, and then, only in the faith).
�Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20
"My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment." James 3:1
Currently, many have error publicly available for reading, based on the errant belief that whatever Moses said was okay and provides a basis for divorce, and which supersedes what Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, says. It does not, and needs to be removed from public view.
Jesus Himself said Moses was wrong, so do not say that it is part of scripture, and therefore it is still valid. It is not. God has the final say so, not Moses. Just because God includes history in His word doesn't mean He approves the error of people included in the History. God has clearly said He doesn't approve of divorce.
�For the Lord God of Israel says
That He hates divorce,
For it covers one�s garment with violence,�
Says the Lord of hosts.
�Therefore take heed to your spirit,
That you do not deal treacherously.� Malachi 2:16
The problem with people, is they "think" they know better than God.
If you "think" "God wouldn't want (you) to be alone for the rest of (your) life", write out 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 a hundred times, then come back and show me where God says that in His holy word.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:00 PM
I took a look at what was said in that article, and saw that much of it was based on what Moses "allowed/commanded". However, the author failed to take note that Jesus completely and totally overruled and debunked any and all of the arguments based on what Moses did/said by applying the argument of God's original intent to divorce. Because Jesus completely dismissed all arguments based on what Moses did, and note in particular, (at a certain point it doesn't matter why Moses did what he did, even though), Jesus explained it was because of their sinful hearts, we are prohibited from using what Moses said as justification to do what God says He hates.
�For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one�s garment with violence,� Says the Lord of hosts. �Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously (with your spouse).� Malachi 2:16
So one has to wonder, knowing that Jesus completely shut down all arguments based on Moses, and clearly said that the standard Moses was using was and is not correct, and therefore nobody in a legitmate consummated marriage is to divorce; why do people still insist on going back to arguments based on Moses' practices?
How is it that in today's church people are still trying to justify divorce based on the law of Moses? Any attempt to base any argument on anything that preceeds or predates Christ's statements in the new testament is per se invalid. Why do people keep wanting to go back to the law of Moses on this point? It is irrelevant, and should not come into the discussion in any way shape or form.
From the article, "So Jesus condemns casual divorce and remarriage by explaining, not overturning, Moses' Law."
Jesus never used the word casual. To God, no divorce is casual. He used the origin intent explanation to why all divorce is prohibited. The origin intent explanation contains consummation of the marriage, and divorce in the case of all consummated marriages is forbidden by Christ.
1 Then He arose from there and came to the region of Judea by the other side of the Jordan. And multitudes gathered to Him again, and as He was accustomed, He taught them again.
2 The Pharisees came and asked Him, �Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?� testing Him.
3 And He answered and said to them, �What did Moses command you?�
4 They said, �Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her.�
5 And Jesus answered and said to them, �Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God �made them male and female.� 7 �For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh�; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.�
(Stop, go back, and see where Jesus ended the conversation with the Pharisees. Notice what Christ actually said to the Pharisees in this text. Do not superimpose what Christ said to the disciples onto His conversation with the Pharisees, which had ended. Note every exception that Christ gave to the Pharisees in this passage. Hint: none. What God states clearly in one passage, He does not contradict (with ambiguous language) in another.)
10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter. 11 So He said to them, �Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.�
"1 Now it came to pass, when Jesus had finished these sayings, that He departed from Galilee and came to the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2 And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them there.
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, �Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?�
4 And He answered and said to them, �Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning �made them male and female,� 5 and said, �For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh�? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.�
7 They said to Him, �Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?�
8 He said to them, �Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.�"
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for porneia (sexual immorality), and marries another, commits moxitai (marital adultery); and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.�"
"10 His disciples said to Him, �If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.�" (WARNING WILL ROBINSON, DANGER, DANGER!!!)
11 But He said to them, �All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother�s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven�s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.�
What you should take away from the Matthew 19 passage.
Only for porneia (sexual immorality) prior to consummation of the marraige, not moxitai (marital adultery), can you divorce, marry another, and not commit marital adultery.
The author also completely misses the point of 1 Corinthians 7:10-11. God wants marriages healed. God does not want anyone marrying someone other than their original spouse. God forbids marrying someone not the spouse from whom they are divorced. There are no exceptions in these verses.
God commands every woman who goes to court and obtains a divorce from their spouse to stay unmarried, or be reconciled (remarried) to her husband. We know that when it says depart, it means divorce, because it then says she is to remain unmarried following departure.
"Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife."
It is clear from how these verses are written, that this prohibition applies to men as well. This is a separate and distinct command from God to not marry someone else. There are no exceptions here, so it doesn't matter why the woman got the divorce. For all who fall into this category, God desires first that they reconcile, or failing to reconcile. stay unmarried.
Yes, God would have people "stay alone" (unmarried), as some put it, rather than enter into an adulterous marriage. He says so. It doesn't matter if I don't think God would have this person or that stay alone because of their horrible circumstance. What matters is that God doesn't ask, He tells us His command, and no matter how tragic the circumstances, God says do not marry another. Nothing in Matthew 19 contradicts what God says here, nor overrules what God says here. This is not optional any more than, "you shall not murder" is optional. This is God's final word on what to do as someone who obtains a divorce from the courts, and it is a command, not a suggestion.
So the last logical issue is, what about that person who is put away? If God desires reconciliation, it will take both parties to the marriage. If it is His will for healing and reconciliation, then it is unthinkable that He is saying to the one put away, do whatever you want. No, He wants that person to hold out for reconciliation as well. That is the only outcome that would be consistent with the character of Almighty God. He's not telling one said it's important to reconcile, and the other it is not.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:10 PM
Not sure why posts are not appearing/disappearing, and getting no response from website, I will try posting in smaller segments, and see if that helps.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:12 PM
1 of 4
I took a look at what was said in that article, and saw that much of it was based on what Moses "allowed/commanded". However, the author failed to take note that Jesus completely and totally overruled and debunked any and all of the arguments based on what Moses did/said by applying the argument of God's original intent to divorce. Because Jesus completely dismissed all arguments based on what Moses did, and note in particular, (at a certain point it doesn't matter why Moses did what he did, even though), Jesus explained it was because of their sinful hearts, we are prohibited from using what Moses said as justification to do what God says He hates.
�For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one�s garment with violence,� Says the Lord of hosts. �Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously (with your spouse).� Malachi 2:16
So one has to wonder, knowing that Jesus completely shut down all arguments based on Moses, and clearly said that the standard Moses was using was and is not correct, and therefore nobody in a legitimate consummated marriage is to divorce; why do people still insist on going back to arguments based on Moses' practices?
How is it that in today's church people are still trying to justify divorce based on the law of Moses? Any attempt to base any argument on anything that precedes or predates Christ's statements in the new testament is per se invalid. Why do people keep wanting to go back to the law of Moses on this point? It is irrelevant, and should not come into the discussion in any way shape or form.
From the article, "So Jesus condemns casual divorce and remarriage by explaining, not overturning, Moses' Law."
Jesus never used the word casual. To God, no divorce is casual. He used the original intent explanation to why all divorce is prohibited. The original intent explanation contains consummation of the marriage, and divorce in the case of all consummated marriages is forbidden by Christ.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:15 PM
Part 1 of 4
I took a look at what was said in that article, and saw that much of it was based on what Moses "allowed/commanded". However, the author failed to take note that Jesus completely and totally overruled and debunked any and all of the arguments based on what Moses did/said by applying the argument of God's original intent to divorce. Because Jesus completely dismissed all arguments based on what Moses did, and note in particular, (at a certain point it doesn't matter why Moses did what he did, even though), Jesus explained it was because of their sinful hearts, we are prohibited from using what Moses said as justification to do what God says He hates.
�For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one�s garment with violence,� Says the Lord of hosts. �Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously (with your spouse).� Malachi 2:16
So one has to wonder, knowing that Jesus completely shut down all arguments based on Moses, and clearly said that the standard Moses was using was and is not correct, and therefore nobody in a legitimate consummated marriage is to divorce; why do people still insist on going back to arguments based on Moses' practices?
How is it that in today's church people are still trying to justify divorce based on the law of Moses? Any attempt to base any argument on anything that precedes or predates Christ's statements in the new testament is per se invalid. Why do people keep wanting to go back to the law of Moses on this point? It is irrelevant, and should not come into the discussion in any way shape or form.
From the article, "So Jesus condemns casual divorce and remarriage by explaining, not overturning, Moses' Law."
Jesus never used the word casual. To God, no divorce is casual. He used the origin intent explanation to why all divorce is prohibited. The origin intent explanation contains consummation of the marriage, and divorce in the case of all consummated marriages is forbidden by Christ.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:24 PM
I took a look at what was said in that article, and saw that much of it was based on what Moses "allowed/commanded?. However, the author failed to take note that Jesus completely and totally overruled and debunked any and all of the arguments based upon what Moses did/said by applying the argument of God's original intent for marriage. Because Jesus completely dismissed all arguments based upon what Moses did/said, (and note in particular, at a certain point it doesn't matter why Moses did what he did, even though Jesus said it was because of their sinful hearts), we are prohibited from using what Moses said was proper justification to do what God says He hates.
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:26 PM
�For the Lord God of Israel says That He hates divorce, For it covers one�s garment with violence,� Says the Lord of hosts. �Therefore take heed to your spirit, That you do not deal treacherously (with your spouse).� Malachi 2:16
So one has to wonder, knowing that Jesus completely shut down all arguments based on Moses, and clearly said that the standard Moses was using was and is not correct, and therefore nobody in a legitimate consummated marriage is to divorce; why do people still insist on going back to arguments based on Moses' practices?
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:32 PM
"For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce, because it covers one's garment with violence" Malachi 2:16
So one has to wonder, knowing that Jesus completely shut down all arguments based on Moses, and clearly said that the standard Moses was using was, and it not correct, and therefore nobody in a consummated marriage, according to Jesus, is to divorce, why do people still insist on going back to arguments based on the law of Moses and his practices?
Someone asked about any legitimate reason for divorce and remarriage.
Posted : 19 Nov, 2015 01:38 PM
How is it that in today's church, people are still trying to justify divorce based upon the law of Moses? Any attempt to base any argument on anything that precedes or predates Christ's statements in the New Testament are per se invalid if they differ in any way with what Christ said. Just because God recorded history doesn't mean He approves of it all. He doesn't approve of what Moses did and taught. Otherwise, Christ is a liar. So why do people keep wanting to go back to the law of Moses on this point? It is irrelevant in light of what Christ said, and should not come into the discussion in any way, shape, or form.
