Thread: Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
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Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 12 Jul, 2014 06:17 PM
Hello everyone:
Here is a verse of Scripture which has brought much division within the body of Yeshua.
John 8:36 Therefore, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed.
Many professing believers have placed themselves into bondage by continuing under the law,I don't smoke,and i don't chew,and i don't run with those that do.
In Philadelphia,Pa. we called these believers Fundies,or Fundamentalists.
Now how much freedom do believers in Messiah have?
Can believers drink beer,wine,smoke cigarettes or weed?
Are believers free to take prescription medications.
Does freedom in Yesuha permit believers to share the Gospel with sexually immoral people.
What about people with diseases such as Aids,T.B,Ebola, or others physically transmitted diseases.
When a believers convictions do not allow themselves or others to enjoy things that make this broken life a little easier,then have we been living by faith or by rules and regulations.
I do not abdicate anarchy,drunkenness,drug abuse, or to live carnally,but ALL things in moderation,and not to force others to live by my personal convictions.
Blessings
PS:
I did not learn much in school,especially English grammar.
Please make any corrections necessary for this to be correct.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 15 Jul, 2014 05:09 PM
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" - Romans 6:1
"God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" - Romans 6:2
We are saved from the punishment of sin, in other words the wrath that was to be poured out on us on judgement day will be removed because Jesus payed our fine.
But to continue on sinning as if nothing happened is like saying "Thanks for the free pass Jesus" then spitting in his face.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 15 Jul, 2014 06:03 PM
Hi Gamer;
Are you against a person having a drink of alcoholic beverages,or a little wine.
How about a person taking pain medication for a broken pelvis.
Remember,the sin(s) which bound a person will not be removed in one day,this might take the rest of a persons life.
I believe the sin(s) which kept a person from faithing into Yeshua,He removes giving faith instead.
The other sin(s),will be removed as GOD Almighty continues sanctifying a person.
Remember,sin is like the tap root of a tree,( the tap root is as 'UNBELIEF')with many other roots spreading forth in order to support the tree,and to keep the tree from falling over.
IF only one leaf at a time one a day were to be removed,would this have any affect on the removal of the tree,absolutely not.
NOW cut the tap root,and in a short time you will see the beginning to die,so it is with sin.
REPENT of 'UNBELIEF', and you will see the affects of sin going away in a persons life.
Exo 23:28 And I will send hornets before you which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite before you.
Exo 23:29 I will not drive them out from before you in one year, that the land not become a waste, and the beast of the field multiply on you.
Exo 23:30 I will drive them out before you little by little, until you are fruitful and possess the land.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 17 Jul, 2014 02:27 AM
Hi gamer:
Thank you for your response.
Most people do no know that there is no such thing as 'non fermented wine'
I do not know who started that rumor,maybe someone that did not want others to enjoy drinking some wine.
Freshly squeezed grapes produce 'grape juice';NOT non fermented wine.
New wine is wine that has been left to ferment yet has not gone through the entire process of fermenting.
This wine is about 4-6 weeks odl.
Then we have 'WINE' which has gone through the process of fermenting,and is not able to be used for drinking.
Messiah Yeshua and the disciples drank 'fermented wine' as new wine might kill a person.
Oh about strong drink what do we do with this particular Scripture.
Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul desireth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Remember Gamer,when reading the Word of GOD,context,context,context.
Deu 14:23 And you shall eat before Jehovah your God in the place which He shall choose to cause His name to dwell there, the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstlings of your herd and of your flock; that you may learn to fear Jehovah your God all your days.
Deu 14:24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you cannot carry it, because the place is too far from you which Jehovah your God shall choose to set His name there, when Jehovah your God shall bless you;
Deu 14:25 Then you shall give it for silver, and bind up the silver in your hand. And you shall go to the place which Jehovah your God shall choose.
Deu 14:26 And you shall pay the silver for whatever your soul desires, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for fermented drink, or for whatever your soul desires. And you shall eat there before Jehovah your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.
Remember to ask,who, what,when,where,how,and why,for some of the Scriptiures talking about wine is to the priests,and Levites.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 17 Jul, 2014 06:04 AM
Asked ~ Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
*** All the Freedom of and in the World...or as Paul calls it..."Liberties"...So since a person in Christ has such "Freedom"...the question now is..."What are you going to do with it?"...xo
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 17 Jul, 2014 12:39 PM
Good post!
Now while I am totally against smoking pot because with the first toke you are HIGH ,theres only high and higher with pot, the Bible clearly explains over and over again that it is drunkenness that is sin and not drinking wine .
The study on pharma is quite another topic. I say that because it is so wicked and the rabbit hole goes deep starting with the real contents of antibiotics of this day.. Ill do a post on that some day. Its a plan that was put in place along with many others to get us where we are now in the end times . Its all satans plan and the jewel of this wickedness will be the fruition of the NWO agenda.
Just as George had stated, context context context! The only way to arrive at the true meaning of what God is saying is to read scriptures surrounding it,cross reference . Scripture explains itself by scripture. Ill go one further by saying that getting into the roots of words brings more understanding. The word pharma is a great example.
Some teach that what is referred to as wine in the Bible is actually grape juice that is unfermented. They propagate that while wine in the Old Testament had an alcoholic content ;the New Testament kind does not. Clearly, Noah or Lot did not get intoxicated on unfermented drink (Genesis 9:21, 19:32-35). How could someone miss that? Biblical evidence shows a consistent reference, from cover to cover, that wine is an alcoholic beverage able to make a person drunk with its OVERUSE.
Jesus very first public miracle was turning water into WINE (John 2), not water into grape juice; the wedding feast in Cana. Jewish custom required they drink REAL wine as a sign of rejoicing. What Jesus miraculously produced HAD to contain fermentation for it to receive the rave reviews it got from guests!
If I were to distort scripture, I could pontificate by stating that all those using grapejuice for communion in the steeple are committing a sin! But in reality using grapejuice in the steeple for communion is no more a sin than having some wine in moderation . And Ill go one further! Wearing a cross around your neck is a representation of ones faith just as drinking grape juice for communion is a representation for wine. Is this committing sin? No, not for the person who is doing so from a heart of pure motives.
It is very good to take a good hard look at Gods word and meditate on it. But it is not good to put restraints on ourselves and others that God has not put forth. ie the "spitting in Gods face " comment.
God does want us to have fun and be joyous within limits. But also;God doesnt want us getting high on ANYTHING but his Holy Spirit.
Matthew 9:17:
Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Matthew Henry's concise commentary:
17 Nor would men put new wine into old leathern bottles, which were going to decay, and would be liable to burst from the fermenting of the wine; but putting the new wine into strong, new, skin bottles, both would be preserved. Great caution and prudence are necessary, that young converts may not receive gloomy and forbidding ideas of the service of our Lord; but duties are to be urged as they are able to bear them.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 17 Jul, 2014 04:43 PM
And....
Boom goes the dynamite!
"for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born." - Luke 1:15
In this scripture that Lord is talking to Zechariah about the birth of John.
Now this doesn't seem like much, it looks to me like the Lord seems to frown upon strong drink, IE fermented wine.
Though I seen what you did with the "There is no such thing as un-fermented wine".
You have to understand the same word meaning then are not the same as they are now.
You cannot take current definitions and apply them to the context of something 2000+ years old or you get issues such as what Atheists like to bring up as a contradiction in the Bible.
In Deuteronomy 14:18 they like to bring up the dietary laws and point out that God calls Bats "Fowl" or in other words "Birds". They cry out "Bats aren't birds!", but that is because we recently changed the definition of what a "Bird" is.
This can also be seen with the reference to insects having 2 arms and 4 legs. They say they have 6 legs and no arms but this again goes back to definitions then and now.
I notice that most of the defense comes from OT. ( though I hate using that term as it is just (the testament) I will use it for the sake of argument)
In the old testament, God said "Thou shalt not commit adultery!". For a long time from Moses to just before Jesus they thought it was only adultery when you slept with someone.
Jesus said that "If a man looks at a women with lust in his heart that he has already committed adultery in his heart".
He also pointed out that "Hatred in your heart is the same as murder".
Here is a great article that is well thought out though warning it is very long on this subject.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 18 Jul, 2014 04:26 PM
Hi gamer:
Did you read what hidden had written,GOD Almighty is not concerned about a person drinking,wine,beer,wiskey ect. IT is the AMOUNT one drinks.
Drunkeness is sin,as one is being controlled by acohol,YET a person can drink without being controlled by alcohol.
Did not Messiah drink WINE;
Mat 26:29 But I say to you, I will not at all drink of this fruit of the vine after this until that day when I drink it new with you in the kingdom of My Father.
The next time you here of a wedding in your neighborhood,go there when they are celebrating,about to drink the wine,and tell them the Word of GOD says they should drink 'grape juice'.
Run for the hills as they throw rocks at you.
This Scripture as many others has divided the people into two camps,liberals,and law keepers.
Gamer,if you and i cannot trust Yeshua with others as they drink wine or other types of alcoholic drinks;
Then how are we able to trust Messiah with ourselves.
Freedom;How much freedom does a believer have In Messiah Yeshua
Posted : 21 Jul, 2014 03:54 PM
So where is the definition for drunkered?
How do I know when enough is too much?
Again, this looks like someone trying to justify something because they enjoy it.
In the end it doesn't really matter to me because I do not judge sin, the Lord does.
"The next time you here of a wedding in your neighborhood,go there when they are celebrating,about to drink the wine,and tell them the Word of GOD says they should drink 'grape juice'."
This made me laugh because it falls dangerously close to "I want to be part of the world". Trust me, if you are in Christ they already hate you regardless of what I say about alcohol.
"Gamer,if you and i cannot trust Yeshua with others as they drink wine or other types of alcoholic drinks;"
This is really a strawman, you are trying to call my faith in salvation into question here.
This is beside the point, none of us have an assurance of salvation in the sense of a document. What we do have is faith is his word that we are saved.
It says that there is no way to please the Lord without faith, it is faith in what Jesus did that assures me that I am saved along with his word written in the Bible.
He has been shown to be faithful and truthful at all times that if I trust in Jesus and repent I will be saved.
But like Paul said, we should not continue on sinning our hearts out because we are saved from it through Jesus but turn from those things as a showing that we are repentive.
I mean, if you repent for sin and continue going back to it are you truly repenting?
