Brothers and Sisters, I have been studying the Word of God for almost forty years. I was born and raised in an Arminian household. I believed the Arminian gospel. I imagined everybody does. When God converted me, I began to read the Holy Scriptures for myself, and the more I read, the more I saw, and see, the poor Arminian has no gospel � no good news at all. His gospel is a sham and a shame and leaves a poor sinner hopeless and helpless.
The Arminian says the eternal purpose of God is based upon man�s free will and choice. If one ask what�s wrong with such a gospel I answer it this way: it starts at the wrong place. The Scriptures began with God: �in the beginning God.� Before man had a being, there was the Eternal, Triune God.
The Arminian begins with man and his power and abilities to do something. Such a gospel deifies man and humanizes God. God becomes subject to man � man�s will and choice. It makes God a beggar, a bystander, as it were, pleading and hoping somebody will decide to accept Jesus into their hearts and lives. But God, in fear of violating their free will, can do nothing until man first acts. God�s whole purpose, according to them, is utterly dependent upon man�s unstable and changing will.
They tell us that Jesus Christ has done no more for those on their way to heaven, than for those who are now in hell. They tell us of a Savior who does not save, a redemption that does not redeem. They don�t tell us of an everlasting salvation that is in the Lord, but of a probation. Their gospel is nothing but a system of works, human merit, goodness and power.
Mr. Spurgeon said, �You can have such a gospel, you are welcome to it, and I hope you keep it to yourself.�
"Brothers and Sisters, I have been studying the Word of God for almost forty years. I was born and raised in an Arminian household. I believed the Arminian gospel. I imagined everybody does. When God converted me, I began to read the Holy Scriptures for myself, and the more I read, the more I saw, and see, the poor Arminian has no gospel � no good news at all. His gospel is a sham and a shame and leaves a poor sinner hopeless and helpless."
"The Arminian says the eternal purpose of God is based upon man�s free will and choice. If one ask what�s wrong with such a gospel I answer it this way: it starts at the wrong place. The Scriptures began with God: �in the beginning God.� Before man had a being, there was the Eternal, Triune God."
I agree with this post! I am not an Arminian, and I don't think anyone here is, however, I do believe in free will, but I also believe it started "At the beginning" with God when He created us with free will, and I do not believe we have any power in ourselves to gain our salvation apart from God. If Arminianism proclaims any of the other things you claim it does, if it stands men up as gods, and humanizes the only God, if it states that God cannot do anything until men want Him to, then I'm opposed to it as much as I am to "reformed" theology.
"You can have such a gospel, you are welcome to it, and I hope you keep it to yourself"
I couldn't find that quote by Spurgeon, but I did find these.
"This is God's sovereign determination, "He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed on the Son of God." Jehovah's will be done. If this be his method of grace, let us not kick against it. If he determines that faith shall save, so let it be; only, Good Master, create and increase our faith."
"But no man, unless he be demented, ever claims credit for believing the truth. If he hears that which convinces him, he is convinced; and if he be persuaded, he is persuaded; but he feels that it could not well be otherwise. He attributes the effect to the truth and the influence used. He does not go about and boast because he believes what is so clear to him that he cannot doubt it. If he did so boast of spiritual faith, all thinking men would say at once, "Wherefore dost thou boast in the fact of having believed, and especially when this believing would never have been thine if it had not been for the force of the truth which convinced thee, and the working of the Spirit of God which constrained thee to believe?" Faith is chosen by Christ to wear the crown of salvation because�let me contradict myself�it refuses to wear the crown. It was Christ that saved the penitent woman, it was Christ that saved that blind beggar, but he takes the crown from off his own head, so dear is faith to him, and he puts the diadem upon the head of faith and says, "Thy faith hath saved thee," because he is absolutely certain that faith will never take the glory to herself, but will again lay the crown at the pierced feet, and say, "Not unto myself be glory, for thou hast done it; thou art the Saviour, and thou alone." In order, then, to illustrate and to protect the interests of sovereign grace, and to shut out all vain glorying, God has been pleased to make the way of salvation to be by faith, and by no other means."
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1162.htm
"SEE HOW CHRIST'S DEALINGS DIFFER, and how extraordinary they are. Here is an evil prayer: "Depart out of our coasts." He grants it. Here is a pious prayer: "Lord, let me be with thee." "Howbeit Jesus suffered him not." Is that his way, to grant the prayer of his enemies, and refuse the petition of his friends? Yes, it is sometimes.
In the first case, when they prayed him to depart, he went. Oh, dear friends, if Christ ever comes near you, and you get a little touched in your conscience, and feel a throb of something like spiritual life, do not pray him to go away; for if he does go, if he should leave you to yourself, and never come again, your doom is sealed! Your only hope lies in his presence; and if you pray against your one hope, you are a suicide, you are guilty of murdering your own soul.
Jesus went away from these people because it was useless to stop. If they wanted him to go, what good could he do to them? If he spoke, they would not listen. If they heard his message, they would not heed it. When men's minds are set against Christ, what else is to be done but to leave them?
He could spend his time better somewhere else. If you will not have my Lord, somebody else will. If you sit there in your pride, and say, "I want not the Saviour," there is a poor soul in the gallery longing for him, and crying, "Oh, that I might find him to be my Saviour!" Christ knew that, if the Gaderenes refused him, the people on the other side of the lake would welcome him on his return."
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."
"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment."
I'm pretty sure I did say what I thought the gospel was, but I think the gospel is the good news about Christ, the Lamb of God who died for the sins of the world, rose again on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of the Father.
The Arminian "says "the eternal purpose of God is based upon man�s free will and choice.
Never said that.......
The Arminian begins with man and his power and abilities to do something.
Never stated this either..........
Such a gospel deifies man and humanizes God. God becomes subject to man � man�s will and choice. It makes God a beggar, a bystander, as it were, pleading and hoping somebody will decide to accept Jesus into their hearts and lives.
But God, in fear of violating their free will, can do nothing until man first acts.
Never said this...........or believed this
God�s whole purpose, according to them, is utterly dependent upon man�s unstable and changing will.
Not at all true or right.........
They tell us that Jesus Christ has done no more for those on their way to heaven, than for those who are now in hell.
Oh yea, who said this not me????
They tell us of a Savior who does not save, a redemption that does not redeem.
He's out of his mind because who ever said this?
They don�t tell us of an everlasting salvation that is in the Lord, but of a probation.
Their gospel is nothing but a system of works, human merit, goodness and power.
I see it quite the opposite........of those who claim Calvinism.
All this man tells me is even though I am not Arm.....and never claimed to be but since your IWA like to place us in such catagories and I take offense in this and I know the others do as well.
This tells me he and you for that fact dont understand our faith. You dont understand and are trying to figure us out and place us in a box. In a box you were once in as a youth.
And now being in another box of calvinism. Enjoy your box but we true followers of Jesus are free from box's.
Let me example for you practically the will of man.
God : Adam
Adam: yes God
God: Dont eat of the tree and by the way tell Eve aslo will you?
God: And by the way if you eat of the tree you will surly die.
Adam: Ok, God got it.
Satan: Hey Eve
Eve: Im not suposed to be talking to stangers.
Satan: Eveeey, its alright> Dont you see this tree? Isn it good to look at? Its even better tasting. Why dont you give it a try?
Eve: Im not suposed to talk to stangers and God said that if I eat or touch the tree I will surly die.
Satan: You will not die if you touch it. Just give it a try.
Eve: Ok just this once.
Satan: See you didnt die by touching it God was wrong now give it a taste.
Eve: Ok why not? Since God was wrong in that. Yummmmmmy hey husband try this.
Adam: wow thats good! never tasted anything like this.
Adam and Eve: Hey what happened? Were naked and afraid!!!! I want to hide especially from God and you too.
God: Where are you? ( obviously God knows He asking the question for their sake)
God: Come out come out where ever you are.
God: Why are you dressed in those silly leaves? What happened to the glory you were once clothed in?Thats right you ate from the tree willingly when I told you not too, right?
Adam and Eve: Yes God we did.
God: Now you see I was right and you died in your glory?
Adam and Eve: Yes God
God: Now you see you can no longer be in my presence? Here I am going to cloth you in animal skins a amimal I had to sacrifice its lood to cover you with. (Little do they know another sacrifice will cover all man kind through God dear Son who was prepared before the foundations of the world and even before Adam and Ever ever came into existance)
Adam and Eve: We glady receive your gift to us God of these skins. ( Adam and Eve took the skins from God)
God: By the way.. I am going to kick you out of the garden and curse the ground and your woumb Adam and Eve. ( because out of the ground Adam and Eve were created.)
So Adam and Eve only received what God offered to them by His grace.
First to Adam God gave life and a garden to tend. Then God gave Adam a wife to tend the garden with him. God gave Adam fellowship because Adam was clothed in righteousness from creation. God gave Adam a tree to show his obedience to God. God gave Adam and Eve coverings for their rebellion.
Adam and Eve simply received all God gave them.
Just as us..........And this is considered works? Nonsense!!!!!
