everyone knows about Martin Luther, and the good he did. his exposing the coruption of the church.
I seen the movie called "Luther" which is about Martin Luther, in the beginning of his life. how he became a monk, and how he lived his monastic life, his 95 thesis written to challenge the corruptness of the church... one of which is thesis 86, which asks: "Why does the pope, whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with the money of poor believers rather than with his own money?", and his other struggles... but the movie ends after he gets married and then you assume he lives happily-ever-after.
what the movie doesnt get into, and what most people dont know about him is his bad side that came out after his failed attempt to convert the jews "peacfully"
after he failed to convert the jews, he turned bitter towards them. he wrote a treatise called "on the jews and their lies." you wont hear this bad side of luther in church... I didnt, all i heard was the good stuff about him in church. i think he did a lot for the church... but i think Martin makes a better "two face" then does the villian in the new batman movie. most people would argue that it was him who paved the way for the nazis. Hitler used many of luthers sayings to justify his actions against the jews. i have no idea how many jews hitler murdered, but if you confronted him on it, he would say "for every jew i kill, i am guiltless"
here are some of the examples from "on the jews and their lies"
He refers to Jews as "a brood of vipers and children of the devil" (from Matthew 12:34), "miserable, blind, and senseless," "truly stupid fools," "thieves and robbers," "lazy rogues," "daily murderers," and "vermin," and likens them to "gangrene." He then goes on to recommend that Jewish synagogues and schools be burned, their homes razed and destroyed, their writings confiscated, their rabbis forbidden to teach, their travel restricted, that lending money be outlawed for them, and that they be forced to earn their wages in farming. Luther advised "[i]f we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs."
In conclusion, he wrote:
There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses � namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind.' So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them. Rather we allow them to live freely in our midst despite all their murdering, cursing, blaspheming, lying, and defaming; we protect and shield their synagogues, houses, life, and property. In this way we make them lazy and secure and encourage them to fleece us boldly of our money and goods, as well as to mock and deride us, with a view to finally overcoming us, killing us all for such a great sin, and robbing us of all our property (as they daily pray and hope). Now tell me whether they do not have every reason to be the enemies of us accursed Goyim, to curse us and to strive for our final, complete, and eternal ruin! [32]
Luther advocated an eight-point plan to get rid of the Jews either by religious conversion or by expulsion:
1 "First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..."
2 "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ..."
3 "Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ..."
4 "Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ..."
5 "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ..."
6 "Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. ... Such money should now be used in ... the following [way]... Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount]..."
7 "Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a ho, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow... For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and far**ng, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."
8 "If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs." [33]
Hitler made many references to Luther.
luther died with these beliefs. before he died he had many sicknesses and the more sick he got, the harsher were his words. his wife was overheard saying to him "Dear husband, you are too rude" and he responded "they are teaching me to be rude"
so, yea i was shocked when i heard of this... i always heard about the good Luther did... in church, in the movie. but my main point is... does his sins send him to hell? or did God forgive him? after all, he did believe Christ was his savior, and though his sin caused many problems, was God not willing to forgive him for that sin? though Jesus died on the cross for that sin... or did he not? did Martin Luther go to hell?
With the latter part of his life such a mess, it will make you think about the first part in a different way. It almost sounds like he always had a Spirit of rebellion. To save everyone the trouble of looking, no I am not Catholic. LOL. I just see a pattern in the information posted.
Interesting post, I didn't know that about him. Food for thought.
This is the third time I have tried to post this. It appears that the p word, is not allowed. But hell is is ok. Geeeezzzz!
Anyway, hope this goes through, I will try to remember what I wrote. I suppose if one would think that Martin Luther is in hell, and not heaven because of his past sins, then we all must wonder if we're going to heaven, because of our past sins. It doesn't matter what he did to the Jews or anyone else, if he repented of his sin we must assumed God's word to be truth and he is in heaven, if we believe in Jesus Christ, confess Him with our mouth, and repent. Otherwise, the apostle Paul cannot be in heaven because of what he did in his past to the chirstians, and Paul even confessed that he was the chief of sinners.
So then, what shall we say to these things? Salation only requires that we believe, receive Jesus Christ into our hearts, and repent of our sins. Luther's writings and biblical translations, and song he wrote would so indicate that he had discovered the error of his ways and had come into a personal relationship with God, and experienced and expressed this relationship in his writings and spiritual songs he left for us. One of my favorite is A Mighty Fortress Is Our God. I just love this song especaially when a large choir sings it.
Martin Luther did only as we all do and have done, and Paul did BEFORE the mercy and grace of salavtion, we all kicked agaiinst the( p) that's the word that refused to allow my post. The bible tells us that Jesus asked Paul why are you kicking against the (p), God's truths resisting his love and His word? WE all thought we had it all together, and didn't need a savior, BEFORE salvation.
Therefore, I would say, if Martin Luther didn't go to heaven, because of his past sins BEFORE salavtion, then I suppose we all had better watch out! As well as, we must then assume that the apostle Paul isn't in heaven because of his past sins against God and the church, he went around killing all believers who believed in Jesus Christ...
This post isn't what I had said in the last two, but it summerizes the thought. ...
Jeffro, Good question and informational post about Martin Luther, many people never heard of him, or know who he was in the christian community... :applause:
thanks i didnt know about him untill i heard about him in church. my pastor talked about what he did for the church, and always said, if it wasnt for God using him, we wouldnt have our bibles. because during his life time, bibles were only permitted to the high priests or (priest), and commoners were not worthy. this allowed the church to corrupt the teaching, and no one could appose them. if they did, they would be going against Gods will.
also his rebellion happened after his salvation. his last sermon was another anti-semetic sermon.
so you could say he fell out of Gods grace... he was rightous in his early life, but became obsessed with persecuting jews, basicly calling them all evil children of the devil... he had many nasty words... he ever gave the ok to kill a jew with out being guilty. all this was the later part of his life, and the more sick he got the worse was his hatred.
so did he fall out of Gods grace?
also remember he commited the BIG sins... not just the little ones. he had more hatred in his heart for the jews was up their with Hitlers hatred. his belief of scripture concerning jewish people was corrupted. you could say he corrupted the bible... rejected Gods truth, he corrupted it, and turned it towards the jewish people.
his hatred towards the jewish is much like that of the Godhatesfags cults hatred towards homosexuals. google em if you havnt heard of them. they are sick... his later life is much like the life of that cult.
he said its ok to kill jews... anyone who killed in the name of luther, makes luther responsible... it makes luther a murderer.
all that said, i kind of feel sorry for how he lived, though hes dead so it does no good to feel sorry.
Martin Luther definitly worship God... but did he make God into his own kind of God?
constipation, hemorrhoids, meniere's disease, fainting, tinnitus, and cataract in one eye. later kidney and blatter stones, arthritus. a ruptured ear drum from an ear infection, and angina... i dont know what most of those are.
3 days before his death he had his last sermon, which was his last anti-semetic sermon, before he died.
Constipation - we all know this one, but it's painful.
Hemorrhoids - Potentially painfull
Meniere's Disease - This is a condition where the shell-like thing in the ear stiffens and causes a constant ringing in the ears and eventual deafness.
Fainting - Multiple causes, which includes equilibrium problems from ear disease. Just a thought.
Tinnitus - Constant ringing in the ears.
Cataract - We know that one too.
Kidney & Bladder Stones - This is Very painfull, sometimes caused by too much calcium intake which could also cause calcium deposits elsewhere to include the ears, blood vessels, etc.
Arthritis - We know that one. Pain.
Ruptured Ear Drum - This probably started all the other ear problems.
Angina - chest pain that could precipitate a heart attack or could indicate other heart issues.
So, maybe, he also had some senile dementia or other mental issues. The biggest complaint with Tinnitis is more psychological. Add that to all the other problems and it would be a rough life.
Which leads to another question....
Would he have been held accountable for actions taken if he wasn't in his right mind?
Just some more food for thought,
(Man!.....Thought has GOT to be getting full by now! :))
if we say he is in hell because of his actions... his cruelness, then where does the grace of God come in? his actions are not what determines his eternal life. its his faith. maybe he was decieved, or maybe he decieved himself. is God not capable to forgive him? i believe Martin loved Jesus with all his heart... but he had a weakness... like all of us. no matter how big his weakness was, God still loved him, because Martin Luther Loved Jesus... i believe he knew Jesus better then most christians today.
hmmmm.
also thanks for the information on all those diseases...
