Author Thread: Why did God hate Esau?
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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2009 04:34 PM

Why did God hate Esau?

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2009 05:04 PM

God is sovereign and He knew what Esau's character would be like even before he was born.

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2009 05:15 PM

The word translated as hate in this context is a comparative term. It is really saying that He chose Jacob over Esau, thus one was loved and the other hated. This is also evident in secular writings of the same time period.



This is what Thomas Nelson has to say about it; Loved....Hated, are not matters of emotions, they are matters of the Father's will. In the papyri (Ancient secular writings, dating to biblical times) the expressions "loved" and "hated" was said of a man who could afford to adopt only one of two twin orphan boys. He was said to have "loved" the one he adopted, and "hated" the one he did not adopt. Here all that is signified is that Jacob was blessed and Esau was not.



Does that Help?



Love and grace,

Leon

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2009 05:25 PM

T,



I don't think this is to mean that God hated Esau as we know the meaning of hate to mean. God made a sovereign choice of which of the two boys would be best qualified for the mission to the Jews, God had already planned before the foundation of the earth, and before either Jacob or Esau were born. God made the choice as to which one He would choose (adopt as His leader)to fulfill His purposes... Divine election or selection as it is referred to... that's because God's got it like that (LOL)



Jacob have I loved (or Jacob I have loved, and Esau I have hated. Jacob was more assertive and aggressive, whereas Esau was more laid back and really wasn't concerned about the things of God in that, he was more into himself and what he accomplished in his work. Jacob was the youngest, and Esau was the elder, and God had already spoken that the elder son would serve the younger and although Jcaob got his blessings through trickery, God still looked at his faith over that of Esau and what Esau had accomplished.



Esau sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of food, because he was tired after coming in from the fields, and did not have the faith or willingness to get his own food. Esau disobedyed and married women he was told not to marry. Then he went after Jacob in anger to kill him because Jacob had stolen his blessing, although they made up... so the love God had for Jacob, and the hate He expressed for Esau does not mean God hated Esau as we know hate, God hated Esau's ways. And this also represents Gods' relationship for the Jews and that of the Gentiles. The Jews are His chosen people, and His promises to the Jews are set forever, but they have rejected His Christ, but the Gentiles have not. The Jews rejected the gospel while the Gentiles accepted it. Esau rejected counsel, while Jacob received it and obeyed... Its not that God respected Jacob for his lying and cheating, but he knew he could use his skills to accomplish His divine work. Salvation by faith, and not by works...



Its somewhat complicated if you have not read the whole story in Genesis, and /or have not read what Paul writes in Romans chapter 9, about the Jews and the gospel. Hope this helps a little, but if you read the story and Romans 9 you will better understand the relationship between God and Jacob, Jacob and Esau, and God and the Jews and the Gentiles... God had to make a choice between the two boys based on what He already knew of their character before they were born.



Genesis chapters 25-32

Romans chapter 9

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 6 Mar, 2009 10:09 PM

Ella,



Great post. I like the tie in to Romans 9. That is the key to understanding all this.



Much love,

Leon

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 10:24 AM

The truth in this regard is at the very HEART of having a proper WORLD VIEW! This topic is the essence of my work. YHWH told us 3500 years ago what Edom would be doing TODAY while he is 'concealed' and 'deceiving the nations' in a 'CONTROVERSY OVER ZION'. Most today believe the FALSE PARADIGM that allows Edom to remain concealed. That false paradigm has to do with the very NATURE OF DISTINGUISHING, WITH OUR SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS, WHO THE FIRST BORN SON IS. We like Jacob have become spiritually blind so as not to see that Esau/Edom is DECEIVING US in order for us to GIVE HIM what does not belong to him. Allow me to post a small section of my Doctoral Thesis to get you started in understanding what has been SEALED UP in the scriptures for 3500 years and promised to be unsealed to EXPOSE EDOM in the END OF DAYS before Messiah comes. This is the promised EliYah Message!



This is some seriously deep stuff and we will only be scratching the surface. Put on your spiritual eyes and allow the Ruach (spirit) to enable your vision to be opened to the truth that will set you free from the worlds' delusion.

Let's begin with a refresher on the elements of the Azazel Atonement Sacrifice:

"And he shall take the two goats, and present them before YHWH at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for YHWH, and the other lot for Azazel. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which YHWH's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the Azazel goat shall be presented alive before YHWH, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.... Then shall he kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for the people, and bring his blood within the veil, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat.... And he shall sprinkle of the blood upon it with his finger seven times, and cleanse it, and hallow it from the uncleanness of the children of Israel. And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there." Leviticus 16:7-15

Okay, there's really a lot going on in the above verses; let me touch on a few key points before we move on to the next passages. First, let's remember that this 'Day of Atonements' happens only one time a year. It is a day unlike any other day. It is also the only day of the year that the high priest, according to the Law, was allowed to enter into the 'Holy of Holies' where the Mercy Seat of YHWH was located. He is to enter only with the blood of the sacrifices. All blood sacrifices are an ante-type of Yahwshau's efficacious blood promised at the sacrifice YHWH gave as a pattern at the foundation of the world. Death is only temporary...given to help us understand TRUE DEATH (which is spiritual separation from the creator) and its cause which is SELFISHNESS which disregards the desires of the creator and opposes his order...to the point of murder.

We know that the blood of bulls and goats can not, and never could, atone for sin because they had ALWAYS been understood as ante-typical from the foundation of the world (and even their death is not 'death') as we can now see these are shadows of REALITY for which we are being yet created. They are but shadows of the reality. This is why there was an anticipated change in the Temple Administration as detailed in Hebrews and covered earlier. It was intended from the beginning that the Messiah would come to be the King and High Priest (which we shall focus on more shortly). He is the promised sacrifice and administrator under the re-established contract for which the first is only a pattern that leads us to the understanding of things not otherwise comprehended. Real spiritual food to be sacrificed and eaten for real salvation which is to enter the eternal sabbath for which we have been created.

But the above account is a different aspect or paradigm regarding sacrifice from which to understand the nature, character and plan of the one who is revealing himself through the commands. Not only must transgression be atoned for by blood, but it must be REMOVED forever from the presence of YHWH and his people...this is ante-typified by the 'wilderness' or 'outside' or 'hell' if you will. This is true death; it is separation from YHWH's eternal realm.

This is represented in the Azazel Goat. Azazel is an ante-type of Satan. Whereas the YHWH goat represents the sacrifice of the Messiah in this FEAST, this festival has not yet been completed in history as the Azazel must yet be REMOVED. This is still a future event, as we know that sin (and the Edomite Savior who is Satan) is still in the world. Therefore, although YHWH's Messiah himself bore his own blood before the Mercy Seat in the Heavenly realm as the book of Hebrews points out, and therefore has atoned for sin as the YHWH goat above is merely an ante-typical shadow of the reality, we have a picture of the anti-messiah goat as well. The Azazel, devil goat has not yet been removed to the 'uninhabited place' (though it can be effectively argued that our High Priest has, with his sacrifice, confessed the sins of his people who trust him, squarely upon the head of this Azazel who is Edom and Satan. As the Messiah said: "The Prince of this world now stands condemned." But again, he has not yet been removed. This is SPIRITUAL DEATH to be removed from YHWH's eternal kingdom. And this is consistent of the ante-typical promise of the crushing of the serpents head given in the first gospel overview in Genesis, since the Messiah demonstrates that the lamb that is slain is raised again and is standing...looking 'as if slain' but living in the presence of YHWH according to Revelation.

In a way one might say that Yahwshua epitomizes the 'heart of gold' demonstrated through trusting obedience which atones for the sin of repentant men, and Satan epitomizes selfish disobedience which is the source of rebellion and the 'Lord' of unrepentant (and hypocritical, self deceived, lying) men, all of which must be removed from the presence of YHWH and his people FOREVER (an aspect of the nature of hell being an eternally separate place). This is ante-typified in the Azazel goat of Atonements. But it can only be done in the fullness of time. The Story must be played out according to the SCRIPT! TIMING IS EVERYTHING! The book has been written and we are in the final scenes of the UNIVERSAL DRAMA.

What we should be beginning to see is the struggle of 'good hearts' and 'evil hearts', righteousness and wickedness, being played out in the differing roles of these two goats (or the Passover Lamb, which is also the YHWH goat, and the Azazel Goat which is the Deceiver known prophetically as Edom)...both of which are necessary concepts which fully address the temporal dilemma of 'sin' in the temporal world, which is the womb from which YHWH will give spiritual birth to his children as preparation for entering into his eternal, spiritual realm. This then is the very purpose of creation...the end product of our gestation period of His Story. The Earth is about to go into labor and the sons of YHWH who have grown into men, men whose love has been PERFECTED IN TRUTH, will be revealed. The Bride will be purified to meet her Groom at his coming...will you wash your clothes in these sanctifying truths?

We also can see this same struggle manifest in many of the details of the contract. For instance in the opposition seen in: the two cheruvim which oppose each other over the mercy seat; the Archangel Michael and the Prince of Persia; in the account of Cain and Abel; the account of Saul and David; and the account of Esau and Jacob (also PROPHETICALLY known as Edom and Yisra El). All of these give vital information regarding this struggle and YHWH's plan in and through it. This is the full Gospel given from the foundation of the world and whose details have been rolled out over the scroll of time.

But it is this last picture of Jacob (Israel) vs. Esau (Edom) that YHWH gives us the BROADEST AMOUNT OF DETAIL regarding the nature and purpose of this struggle between good and evil portrayed in the Azazel goat sacrifice and promised from the very foundation of the world as well; and it is these details which I intend to focus on for the remainder of this chapter. Let's get started:

Edom vs. Israel

"And these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac: And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian. And Isaac entreated YHWH for his wife, because she was barren: and YHWH was entreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of YHWH. And YHWH said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb. And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau. And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them. And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents. And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob. And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint: And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom. And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright. And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me? And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright." Genesis 25:19-34

We see in the above passage that there are twin sons born to Isaac and Rebekah and they struggled while STILL IN THE WOMB (even as we are still in the womb of created time). Rebekah wanted to understand why there was struggle and inquired of YHWH regarding the matter; even as we wonder why evil and suffering exist. YHWH told her that these two boys would head two nations (known later under their prophetic names of Edom and Israel respectively) and that the older would serve the younger. The older of course was Edom as Israel came out grasping at his heel. He also made it clear that they were extreme opposites as on a spectrum. They symbolized the polarity of all men into only two camps; either loved or hated. Sheep on the right, goats on the left. Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated. Jacob is the progenitor of the spiritual nation of Israel (US) and her Messiah Yahwshua. They are all under YHWH's umbrella of 'love' for Jacob if you will. On the other hand, Esau's is known as Edom, which we shall see that the scripture tells us is the 'red dragon', and his messianic figure is the 'Beast', and all the nations and peoples of the Earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life, will serve him in an end time Deception that will mirror the first deception struggle.

As crucial to understanding this thesis is the concept of the antithetic nature of this struggle which is ante-typical of future events. The pattern for the rectitude of authority (Isra-El) is their head, the Messiah. The pattern of disobedience established in Edom and all the nations that follow him is headed by Satan. These are the two nations represented in the JUDGEMENT which is merely ANTE-TYPIFIED by the 'Day of Atonements', Azazel Sacrifice.

Jacob/Israel's head or Master is the Messiah Yahwshua which is foreshadowed in the goat which is slain to make atonements, and Esau/Edom is the other which is the nation or peoples whose head/Messiah is the anti-messiah Satan, foreshadowed by the goat upon whose head sin is placed and is, when the end product of creation has been created, removed forever from the presence of YHWH and his people to the uninhabitable place. This is Satan's (and those who follow him) eternal 'hell'. The crushing of his head promised from the foundation of the world.

When this is understood, it seems logical that, considering the error and ignorance we have already exposed regarding the name, character, and plan of YHWH, that the Devil may in fact use these seemingly inconsequential flaws, in regard to the true, Biblical end-time EliYah message, in order to fool the WORLD into establishing his wicked world system. In other words, if he can keep people from seeing these prophecies he is then able to HIDE HIMSELF under the guise of the true Messiah thereby fooling the entire world into accepting him as their TYRANICAL KING (as he will posthumously be discovered to have done). And YHWH allows this to happen for his very own purposes...that of separating true hearted ones from the rebels. In the words of Paul:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason YHWH sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." 2 Thes. 2:9-12

Jacob was renamed Yisra-El (which means 'rectitude of authority' as a standard of measure, if you recall) by YHWH for the EXPRESSED purpose of reflecting his image through their faithful obedience to him as his treasured people taken out and seperated for his glory from among ALL the nations of the World. We are to reflect YHWH as our individual father in personal obedience AS HIS WITNESSES (it could never happen before as now since the truth has been SEALED until THESE END DAYS). From this YHWH will gather all those who are his, sprinkled throughout the nations in the end time, Babylonian (Edomite) empire to become his set apart people...the nation called to establish the rectitude of authority, Israel. This is when Messiah returns and leads us across the seas of the skies in the GREAT EXODUS for which the first was merely an ante-typical shadow or 'dry run' as the book of Hebrews clearly teaches.

We are to become 'the rectitude of authority' as a standard of measure, this is our end time 'ark' that will keep us safe from the deluge that happens at the same time as the GREAT EXODUS and 'rapture' of the wicked. The proper application of scripture in the mathematically precise manner which I have used in this treatise is the end-time message that heralds the call to COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!

Edom on the other hand means 'red' and has to do with the red Earth from which we come. It signifies the usurpation of true and perfect spiritual authority which emanates from YHWH and is an earthly, sensual TWIN. A completely polarized OPPOSITE. Totally unspiritual in the sense of TRUSTING THE PROMISE OF REDEMPTION from the foundation of the world. They have no hope or aspirations (despite what they may SAY) beyond THIS TEMPORAL REALM. The snare of course is seeing this world as the one to love rather than the ONE PROMISED! If we view this existence as the true LIFE (and not as a testing ground for it) we will never enter into true life which is only ANTE-TYPICALLY GIVEN FOR OUR CHOICE in this temporal realm. The dragon of Revelation is red because it represents Edom. His end is destruction...he is headed by Satan as his king...he is the opposer and also a deceiver. All these things the scriptures (as we shall see) make CLEAR. Edom is the Azazel goat and represents Satan! Edom is the BODY of Satan even as TRUE Israel is the body of Messiah! They are struggling in HIS STORY right now.

Before we move on to demonstrate these things from the scripture, I must point out another LIE that we have all accepted as true. This lie has to do with Jacob being a deceiver, that is the LIE. Jacob was NOT a deceiver by NATURE...HIS BROTHER IS! Jacob (Y'akob) means RESTRAINER. Israel is the Restrainer of 2 Thes. 2. Jacob was doing as he was told by his mother. Rebekah was told by YHWH the true nature of the two boys WHILE STILL IN HER WOMB. JACOB LEGALLY OWNED THE BIRTHRIGHT WHICH HAD BEEN SOLD TO HIM ON CONTRACT. The spiritual responsibility of the 'birthright' is despised by Edom (earth man) and given to the one who UNDERSTANDS the significance and RISES ABOVE his earthly brother in SPIRITUAL REALITY for which we are being created NOW!

Rebekah did not command her son to deceive in order to STEAL something that did not already rightfully belong to him by both CONTRACT AND DIRECT PROPHETIC REVELATION FROM YHWH HIMSELF. Isaac on the other hand we are told was becoming dull of sight in his old age. He had been DECEIVED THROUGH RELATIONSHIP WITH ESAU, INTO INTENDING TO GIVE THE BLESSING ASSOCIATED WITH THE RESPONSIBLITY OF THE BIRTHRIGHT TO THE WRONG SON. Esau HAD NO RIGHT to that blessing and any lying prophet that says otherwise is merely making up CONTRIVANCES in order to keep you bound in DECEPTION.

You see, although the prophets of the 'Lord' will tell you that 'Yacov' is a euphemism for a 'deceiver' and though there is some truth to it, it is also no less true and much more important to understand, that yacov literally means 'he will grasp the heel' and figuratively has to do with 'RESTRAINT'. Yakov (who is Israel prophetically) means 'he will restrain'...he restrains through Justice founded on TRUTH. Why? Because he becomes the INTEGRITY OF AUTHORITY in a deceiptful world. Although Yakov deceived his father to get the blessing of the first born...he did it in accord with the DETAILS OF THE PLAN! He is NOT a deceiver if he was OBEYING THE COMMANDS! Therefore the paradigm of deception regarding Israel being a 'deceiver' is SHATTERED as another LIE!

Rebekah understood that her husband was suffering from a spiritual blindness that prohibited him from seeing what YHWH had revealed to her in regard to her sons and who would receive the 'right of firstborn'. His mother was told the meaning of the struggle between the boys while still in her womb. Later Esau/Edom spurned the birthright for food to save his temporal life. He sold his soul ON OATH in order to maintain his life here, he was hungry. He was not worthy of the blessing associated with spiritual life but which everyone knew he would receive because Isaac had become spiritually dull of sight in his old age (and therefore easy to deceive). Esau was able to deceive his father into INTENDING to give him the BLESSING for the BIRTHRIGHT which he had ALREADY DESPISED ON OATH! ESAU IS A MASTER DECEIVER BUT HE NOW STANDS CONDEMNED...as we shall make VERY CLEAR before we finish this section. Again, none of this was a surprise to YHWH. He tells us the end from the beginning. We shall see that it is really Edom who is the deceiver (and is invisible to the worlds' perception; Edom is not EVEN on the radar of popular theology...why? DECEPTION!) and the integrity of authority Israel, is the restrainer...as we shall see both these things illuminated CLEARLY in the scripture.

Part of the deception of Edom is to get us to believe that Israel is the Deceiver while he HIDES his own identity as if he is of no prophetic significance. And clearly our prophets of the 'Lord' have never uttered a peep in this regard. But this keeps us from understanding so much of the scripture like 2 Thes. 2:3-12 (who is the restrainer?). Also important to note is that Edom sold his birthright for FOOD. This becomes important when you try to understand the ramification of the mark of the beast and what it entails; the ability to be able to BUY GROCERIES. Will you take the Edomite Oath for temporal sustenance when the trap is sprung on you or will you die, starve if you must, as a witness against TEMPORAL DECEPTION; knowing that is the very PURPOSE for your life if you belong to and trust YHWH and his TRUE PROMISES!?

We can thus say that the 'mark of the beast' is virtually the same as 'the mark of Esau/Edom'. The 'mark' represents rebellion to YHWH as displayed in the act of selling one's spiritual life for temporal, physical sustenance (spurning the Spiritual blessings for Earthly/Worldly sustenance or satisfaction). Key to note is that Esau/Edom sold his birthright with an 'oath'. Edom is Satan�s end-time body. They will take an oath to live in this world when faced with the option of (temporal) death. They are self deceived. I believe the scriptures to teach that one will not be allowed to buy food (or participate in the Devils' world market system in any way) without pledging allegiance to his patriotic, one world 'flag' in some way. In this way it will be clear what one is doing, as clear as Yacov made the deal with Esau by making him first swear an 'oath,' that one has 'despised their inheritance.' THERE MUST BE A MEETING OF MINDS! And Edom has REVENGE through DECEPTION on his mind!

Something else to note before moving on to the next selection of scripture, is that Edom was a great hunter. One of the characteristics of a great hunter is the ability to understand and even mimic his prey to such a degree that he is able to get close enough for the 'shot' without being detected as a threat. A hunter is able to DECIEVE his prey into feeling secure while being LURED into great peril. It will be demonstrated in the verses that follow that Edom is well concealed and is deceiving the world into believing that he (Edom) is actually his brother (Israel) while manipulating the world into his net, while at the same time never being detected to even exist as a potential blip on the screen! If you are spiritually blind you may not see that the world has been deceived into following the EDOMITE MESSIAH rather than the MESSIAH OF ISRAEL who are in a CONTROVERSY OVER ZION in His Story which is NOW!

"I have loved you, saith YHWH. Yet you say, How have you loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says YHWH: yet I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom says, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith YHWH of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom YHWH hath indignation for ever. 5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel." Malachi 1:2-5

Here we see that it is Edom (not Israel) who says: 'we will rebuild the ruins.' Also we see that Edom is the people against whom YHWH's hatred burns forever.

"Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth." Isaiah 63:1-6

I believe what we see here is a picture of Yahwshua trampling the nations (which are headed by Edom)...the speaker calls it the 'day of vengeance' and the 'year of my redeemed'. In other words, as we shall see, this terminology is synonymous with the 'Day of YHWH' and the 'sacrifice' that is SHADOWED only in the Azazel, Atonements Sacrifice.

"Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of YHWH is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcasses, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Edom, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of YHWH is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for YHWH hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Edom. And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. For it is the day of YHWH's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the Controversy Over Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever." Isaiah 34:1-10

Again we see judgment descending upon Edom and on all the nations/peoples that have supported Him. As we shall see this consists of the state of Israel and all the nations and peoples who support it. Verses 9-10 say that smoke will rise from Edom for ever...Edom is AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN the land we know today as South Palestine or the Southern part of the State Israel. You will rarely hear anyone speak of that fact either...now's the time to begin to question why. This is the age old CONTROVERSY OVER ZION between EDOM headed by Satan (who is pretending to be the worlds Messiah to come there for the sake of 'peace') and ISRAEL headed by the TRUE Messiah.

Let's see what the online version of the International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia has to say in regard to Edom:

"e�-dum, e�-dum-its �edhom, "red"; Edom:

1. Boundaries:

The boundaries of Edom may be traced with some approach to accuracy. On the East of the �Arabah the northern border ran from the Dead Sea, and was marked by Wady el-Kurachi, or Wady el-Chasa. On the East it marched with the desert. The southern border ran by Elath and Ezion-geber (Deut 2:8). On the West of the �Arabah the north boundary of Edom is determined by the south border of Israel, as indicated in Num. 34:3: a line running from the Salt Sea southward of the Ascent of Akrabbim to Zin and Kadesh-barnea. This last, we are told, lay in the "uttermost" of the border of Edom (Num. 20:16). The line may be generally indicated by the course of Wady el-Fiqrah. How much of the uplands West of the �Arabah southward to the Gulf of �Aqaba was included in Edom it is impossible to say."

It's interesting to note that the site of the Edomite State of Israel's nuclear enrichment facility (exposed by the 'whistle-blower' Mordechai Vanunu in 1986), is where they have been discreetly enriching weapons grade Plutonium ever since (since it's not a secret anymore and they have the 'wink, nod' approval from England and America who we shall see have a vested interest in making this nation the most powerful on the planet). They have been doing this now for over twenty years with tacit world approval (in violation of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty they signed...along with Iran, who they now do not want to even have nuclear power!).

The site is under the nuclear power plant in Dimona. Dimona is in the historical land of Edom! As we saw in the scripture above, this has significant prophetic implications. The smoke is rising from Edom (Southern portion of the current Edomite State of Israel) FOREVER! This has yet to happen my friends. And this is what is meant in verse 8 where YHWH says this is "the Day of YHWH's vengeance and the year of recompense for the 'Controversy Over Zion'" (the 'Controversy Over Zion is the notion of dueling or 'antithetic orthodoxies'...TWO MESSIAHS!).

Obadiah 1:1-21 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith YHWH Elohim concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from YHWH, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle. Behold, I have made thee small among the nations: thou art greatly despised. The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith YHWH. If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes? How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up! All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him. Shall I not in that day, saith YHWH, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau? And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter. For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them. But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress. For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been. But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for YHWH hath spoken it. And they of the south shall possess the mount of Esau; and they of the plain the Philistines: and they shall possess the fields of Ephraim, and the fields of Samaria: and Benjamin shall possess Gilead. And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel shall possess that of the Canaanites, even unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which is in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south. And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be YHWH's. Obadiah 1:1-21

We see here another picture of the EDOMITE state of Israel and obviously not YHWH's standard. The land and the kingdom are not freed from the Drama until the END. The deception must first come to FULL AND COMPLETE POWER before it will be exposed by YHWH who is true. Only then does the land come under the control of YHWH and his people as indicated in verse 21. This is after Edom has been rooted out by true Israel (rectitude of authority). And this as the result of the 'great exodus' and the end time 'deluge' all happening on the same day...THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF YHWH!

What we see happening today in the Edomite State of Israel is nothing even close to the nature and character of YHWH as revealed in scripture...they do not represent the 'rectitude of authority' rather they ARE demonstrating the deceptive, murderous, lying, hateful character and nature of THE ANTI-MESSIAH or CHRIST who must be deposed FROM THAT LAND after his full revelation as the 'god of this world' according to Scripture!

Jeremiah 49:7-22 Concerning Edom, thus saith YHWH of hosts; Is wisdom no more in Teman? is counsel perished from the prudent? is their wisdom vanished? Flee ye, turn back, dwell deep, O inhabitants of Dedan; for I will bring the calamity of Esau upon him, the time that I will visit him. If grape gatherers come to thee, would they not leave some gleaning grapes? if thieves by night, they will destroy till they have enough. But I have made Esau bare, I have uncovered his secret places, and he shall not be able to hide himself: his seed is spoiled, and his brethren, and his neighbors, and he is not. Leave thy fatherless children, I will preserve them alive; and let thy widows trust in me. For thus saith YHWH; Behold, they whose judgment was not to drink of the cup have assuredly drunken; and art thou he that shall altogether go unpunished? thou shalt not go unpunished, but thou shalt surely drink of it. For I have sworn by myself, saith YHWH, that Bozrah shall become a desolation, a reproach, a waste, and a curse; and all the cities thereof shall be perpetual wastes. I have heard a rumor from YHWH, and an ambassador is sent unto the heathen, saying, Gather ye together, and come against her, and rise up to the battle. For, lo, I will make thee small among the heathen, and despised among men. Thy terribleness hath deceived thee, and the pride of thine heart, O thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, that holdest the height of the hill: though thou shouldest make thy nest as high as the eagle, I will bring thee down from thence, saith YHWH. Also Edom shall be a desolation: every one that goeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss at all the plagues thereof. As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith YHWH, no man shall abide there, neither shall a son of man dwell in it. Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan against the habitation of the strong: but I will suddenly make him run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me? Therefore hear the counsel of YHWH, that he hath taken against Edom; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitations desolate with them. The earth is moved at the noise of their fall, at the cry the noise thereof was heard in the Red sea. Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs. Jeremiah 49:7-22

This is a fairly parallel selection to the book of Obadiah we just looked at, but in it there are a few interesting tidbits not found in Obadiah. Verse 10 tells us clearly that 'Edom is CONCEALED'...he is deceiving the world into believing that he is someone other than Edom. Who will he come as? The Edomite Christian Nations SERVE the Edomite Jewish State which is the FALSE ISRAEL over which Satan will sit as their Christ, the god of this world before being deposed. As we shall see in the next chapter, their final third World War against the terrorist bogey they themselves wave is intended to make that State the capital of the World in preparation of these prophecies being fulfilled. Edom is exposed as a man of violence trying to seize the kingdom by force. But it does not belong to him, THE OLDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. It has been PROMISED.

We should be starting to see Edom exposed while pretending to be Israel...you see, he has been caught on YHWH's own hook...YHWH set him up from the start...he told us the end from the beginning. Edom is pretending to be his brother Israel even as YHWH knew that devil would from the very beginning. If Jacob were the deceiver YHWH would have hated him...but YHWH is OMNISCIENT and used this event to ALLOW THE END TIME WORLD DECEPTION we all LIVE IN TODAY to take root so that in the END DAYS he could EXPOSE EDOM AS PROMISED and by so doing, DEMONSTRATE THE IMMUTABLE EVIDENCE OF HIS OMNIPOTENCE. Remember...in the end only two classes of persons; sheep and goats. Edom and (true) Israel are in a struggle over Zion. It is Edom who tries to take the kingdom through violence and the political intrigue of men. We on the other hand await his promised overthrow upon our GREAT EXODUS which comes if we are FAITHFUL EVEN UNTO DEATH!

Verse 14 tells us that it is YHWH who will give the message to attack the Edomite State of Israel. Verse 15 tells us that they are very small but greatly despised. Verse 16 tells us why...It becomes common knowledge that the EDOMITE STATE OF ISRAEL, along with the deceived Christian worshippers of the same Devil who are forcefully advancing their own world agenda as we shall see in the next chapter, IS THE WORLD'S SPONSOR OF TERRORISM. Then we see as in previous verses, that YHWH pours out his retribution on this deceiver and the nations who helped him and they will be overthrown as Sodom and Gomorrah. The southern portion of the current Edomite State, including the Dimona nuclear site--is the historical land of Edom from where smoke rises forever. This is a FUTURE EVENT! It will happen, YHWH has DECLARED IT. Then and only then will the world know a righteous reign without deception. All planned and promised and grown out from the same gospel promise from the very beginning...from the foundation of the world.

Ezekiel 35:1-15 Moreover the word of YHWH came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against mount Seir, and prophesy against it, And say unto it, Thus saith the YHWH Elohim; Behold, O mount Seir, I am against thee, and I will stretch out mine hand against thee, and I will make thee most desolate. I will lay thy cities waste, and thou shalt be desolate, and thou shalt know that I am YHWH. Because thou hast had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed the blood of the children of Israel by the force of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time that their iniquity had an end: Therefore, as I live, saith YHWH Elohim, I will prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee: since thou hast not hated blood, even blood shall pursue thee. Thus will I make mount Seir most desolate, and cut off from it him that passeth out and him that returneth. And I will fill his mountains with his slain men: in thy hills, and in thy valleys, and in all thy rivers, shall they fall that are slain with the sword. I will make thee perpetual desolations, and thy cities shall not return: and ye shall know that I am YHWH. Because thou hast said, "These two nations and these two countries shall be mine, and we will possess it"; whereas YHWH was there: Therefore, as I live, saith YHWH Elohim, I will even do according to thine anger, and according to thine envy which thou hast used out of thy hatred against them; and I will make myself known among them, when I have judged thee. And thou shalt know that I am YHWH, and that I have heard all thy blasphemies which thou hast spoken against the mountains of Israel, saying, They are laid desolate, they are given us to consume. Thus with your mouth ye have boasted against me, and have multiplied your words against me: I have heard them. Thus saith YHWH Elohim; When the whole earth rejoiceth, I will make thee desolate. As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir, and all Edom, even all of it: and they shall know that I am YHWH. Ezekiel 35:1-15

The above selection has some wonderful lessons in it for us. Verse 10 tells us clearly that the land we know today as the State of Israel is actually TWO LANDS...again, the southern portion always was, and still is, EDOM; and the northern portion shall become Yisra El when Yahwshua removes the Edomites and sets their land ablaze for the rest of created time at his glorious return. He also discloses some other interesting tidbits in this passage. One I will mention here is that Edom is saying some 'contemptible' things...like posing as YHWH's people when in fact they follow 'the opposer' (Satan) and are murdering the saints in the end days as scripture tells us happened in the past as ante-types.

"YHWH, remember the children of Edom in the day of Y'roshalom, who said 'raze it, raze it even down to it's foundation'." Psalm 137:7

This happened once during the first century when the Edomite Rabbinics conspired with Rome to destroy their brothers (the Messianic community) with the concurrent destruction of the Temple. And it will happen again before the Master returns. This is a bit of history, the reference for which other Bible scholars argue over. Let me give you a bit of insight on this history that the so called 'scholars' never discuss.

Herod and Edom

It is supposed that King Herod was from one of the tribes of Israel...this is historically known (but rarely taught) to be FALSE. The 'Herodian dynasty' had its beginning with their progenitor ANTIPAS (antipater). Antipas was governor of 'Idumea' after the Maccabean revolt over a hundred years before Messiah was born. Antipas, and the subsequent Edomite, Herodian kingship line, were not of the tribe of Yahudah but from the tribe of EDOM.

'Idumea' is the Greek variant of the Hebrew word EDOM. Therefore we see it is the hated line of Esau/Edom (the imposter and the Azazel goat of the Atonements Sacrifice) that is ruling from Jerusalem at the first advent (AND the second advent) of the TRUE KING OF YISRA EL. This is a glimpse of the fulfillment of THE anti-christ ante-typified in Herod, which conditions will exist again at the second advent of Messiah when he comes to depose Satan and send him to the 'uninhabitable place' with the sins of men confessed upon his head.

Yahwshua represents the vicarious payment for disobedience according to the mercy, favor, and grace of YHWH who is LOVE. Edom represents the removal of worldly minded, selfish disobedience which is evil, hatred and sin. This is required because the nature of YHWH cannot exist with a selfish nature exhibited in disobedience. I refer to this as the 'justice' requirement of YHWH's nature (but it's really so much more...but beyond the scope of this thesis).

It is for this reason that Edom (through the Herodian kingship line) plotted to murder the infant King. He was not successful until the appointed time of the sacrifice some 30 years later when he was finally allowed to kill him (as written in the play book). But what he did not understand is that by doing so, he would be sealing his own fate and become UNWILLINGLY OBEDIENT to YHWH's plan. Satan and his agents do not understand the ante-types of scripture. They do not understand the nature and character of their creator due to SELFISHNESS which is rebellion. They are SELF DECEIVED. They cannot trust YHWH because they LOVE THEMSELVES MORE. They are doomed to self-destruction in an 'end time deception' based in SELFISHNESS. Nothing can be done to cure their self imposed paradigm which is the cause of their spiritual blindness; their fatal wound is self imposed. How they choose to perceive the world and their role in it...whether in accord with the play book or by following the light of their own torches, this is the issue of all ages.

Here's more of what the online International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia has to say in regard to Edom: :

"5. Idumaea and the Idumeans:

West of the �Arabah the country they occupied came to be known by the Greek name Idumaea, and the people as Idumeans. Hebron, their chief city, was taken by Judas Maccabeus in 165 BC (1 Macc 4:29,61; 5:65). In 126 BC the country was subdued by John Hyrcanus, who compelled the people to become Jews and to submit to circumcision. Antipater, governor of Idumaea, was made procurator of Judea, Samaria and Galilee by Julius Caesar. He paved the way to the throne for his son Herod the Great. With the fall of Judah under the Romans, Idumaea disappears from history."

The fact is that the Romans referred to anyone from that general geographic area as being 'Yahudim', Yahudim literally means: 'praisers of YHWH' but is later translated as 'Jews' by the Edomites in power because:

1. Edom hates YHWH and tried through the line of their Edomite king Herod conspiring with the Emporers of the world to destroy Yisra-El (as we shall see was done not only in the Bar-Abbas/Yahwshua switcheroo for the cross, but also when they conspired with Vespasian to eliminate the wildly growing Messianic community which was getting too large so that there was fear that this supposed 'sect' would take over and the 'traditional' Rabbinic, Edomite Judaism which the Messiah condemned, would lose their (usurped) authority. He wants to supplant YHWH and his laws. He wants to erase His name and replace it with meaningless forgeries as we saw earlier. And:

2. It helps Edom to conceal his identity. The reference above states that 'Idumaea disappered from history' with the destruction of the Temple. But YHWH clearly states that he not only exists as an important 'end days' prophetic element to be recognized, but that these 'end-days' prophecies declare his being the very antithesis of his People Israel, and will be exposed in the last days to be ruling from that land posing as them. Who are YOU going to believe?

Let us recall that Yahwshua (and Paul) definitely make distinctions between one so called 'Jew' and another on many occasions with the following types of statements:

Yahwshua said: "Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." Mark 8:15

He also said to these same people: "you are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father." John 8:44

Later we see Yahwshua making distinctions between TRUE Yahudim (praisers of YHWH) and LIARS who are PRETENDING to be Yahudim (Edomites):

"I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy of those who say they are YHWH praisers and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2:9

And again:

"Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are YHWH praisers, and are not, but lie-- behold, I will make them to come and bow down at your feet, and to know that I have loved you." Revelation 3:9

This actually is the core of the 'end time deception' and the 'powerful delusion' YHWH allows to overtake man just prior to the return of the true Messiah; it's roots going back to the garden deception which put us in bondage to Satan/Pharaoh in the first place. As with his first advent when he came to fulfill not only the role of Passover Lamb, but as the YHWH goat in the Atonements Sacrifice, Edom must be ruling FROM JERUSALEM before Messiah comes to destroy him, AND THEN, according to Obadiah 1:21, the kingdom will BECOME YHWH's. Until then Edom will rule on the Mount of YHWH even as he did at the first advent of Messiah as we saw previously written in ObadYah and elsewhere. Then he is miraculously and utterly deposed at our being gathered to Messiah at the trumpet of his appearing. This is the Greater Exodus into the sabbath 'promise' only foreshadowed by the ante-typical Yahwshua 'leading the (physical) people' into the 'promised land' in the historical 'dry run' given for our end-time instruction.

The Edomite Conspiracy and the Azazel Atonements Sacrifice Exposed in the History of Man

The historical evidence regarding what took place at the destruction of the temple is rather sketchy and surrounded by much tradition and nostalgia but here's what I have been able to glean from the historical evidence in tandem with our contract, the scripture:

Edomites (through the Herodian dynasty) were ruling in the land. The ruling parties installed the High Priests (who were all from the line of Annas, who was installed by the Governor of Syria in 7 AD and was NOT from the line of Aaron as is YHWH's command for the Earthly priesthood which is now ABOLISHED as the Type for which that ante-type was just a dim shadow, has come and been annointed as High Priest in a RE-ESTABLISHED CONTRACT with US not them). Could Herod have been claiming the Melchitzedek/Joshua king-priesthood promised in the scriptures? Yes, this is why Paul 'facetiously' said

'I did not know he was the high priest' Acts 23:5

The High priest was the head of the Sanhedrin (the judicial branch) which was also controlled by the Herodian line. Imagine Paul not being familiar with them all INTIMATELY...ridiculous! He knew they were usurping YHWHs authority because ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDS, THIS MAN DID NOT QUALIFY AS HIGH PRIEST! Nor did Herod qualify to be King...they were EDOMITE IMPOSTORS WHO DID NOT COME IN ACCORD WITH THE DETAILS OF THE CONTRACT! They were whitewashed tombs. The rightly divided scripture is the only way to EVER be able to tell the true from the false.

Finally the Pharisees (the religious clerics) came under the control of these same Edomites. The Rabbinic Jews controlled by the Rothschild family today, are the direct descendents of these historic Edomites and their Satanic father. Anyone not familiar with the power the 'Rothschild' family has wielded over the past two centuries has merely been the victim of Edoms' continued concealment of himself by controlling the focus (and blackouts) of the propaganda he feeds the world through one of his 5 major media information controlling, gate-keeping, propaganda publishing corporations, while at the same time achieving his WORLD ASPIRATIONS while keeping the world in the dark as regards his plans. Through these modern day information censors and spinsters, Edom is still murdering truth to this day. Truth has been thrown down and deception still RULES...those who believe themselves to be wiser and more deserving are willing to MURDER THEIR OWN BROTHERS to get what they want, than to trust the LOVING PLAN of the creator and lay down their selfish aspirations on his altar...will you lay down your life as a witness against their deeds? Through the 'good cop/ bad cop' Hegelian dialectic of political structure and control, his power grid to bring the whole world under his 'United Nations' style, ONE WORLD ORDER government with him sitting as 'god' of the Earth and ruling from Jerusalem is nearing completion. It will come in like a flood.

After this Edomite Sanhedrin (along with the Pharisees who are the acknowledged progenitors of today�s Rabbinic Jews and their violent zionism farce) pronounced the death sentence upon the true King of Israel, the Lamb of YHWH, they confessed the sins of the nation upon their own heads and the heads of their descendents. In this way the first goat of the Atonement sacrifice was slain and the sins confessed upon the head of the second (yet to be removed in the 'day of YHWH' which completes the sacrifice). The Edomites in control forced the hand of the Roman Procurator to do their bidding through a bit of political maneuvering--as we shall see, the Edomite specialty still in use today. Later they conspired with Emperor Vespasian to maintain their power after the destruction of the believing community and the Temple by his son, General Titus, as we will see.

After the Messiah had risen from the ground and was waived as the first fruit in accord with the commands he came to establish and uphold, showing himself to be the first-fruit of the Earth and the High Priest and mediator of the anticipated re-established contract under the Melchitzedek administration, which was only ante-typically shadowed in the first contract, the Messianic community began to grow exponentially in Jerusalem; it was a wild-fire of faith in the PROMISES and in seeing the vision of Daniel revealed by Messiah. Acts tells us that in ONE DAY there were three thousand believers added to the community and in acts five it says...and this was toward the beginning of the persecution of believers around 40 AD (and we know our suffering persecution brings GLORY TO YHWH and his body GROWS rather than diminishes during persecution), that "multitudes of men and women, were continually being added to their number." Acts 5:14.

Scripture and History both indicate that the believing community, which was headed by the half brother of Messiah, Yacov (James), was a VERY LARGE community; by some estimates consisting of a million believers. We also know that the Sanhedrin, after first arresting and beating the disciples in an attempt to intimidate them into silence, began a methodical program of arresting and killing disciples in an organized fashion which, because of the rapid popularity of this 'sect' (which was PURE ORTHODOXY in opposition to and exposed their heretical errors) particularly after the conversion of Paul, they were forced to discontinue that program and opted for a more sinister and effective plan to eliminate this threat to their established (yet usurped) authority.

It seems that after the fifth son of Annas murdered Yacov (the half brother of the Messiah and the head of the authoritative council in Jerusalem), around AD 62, they conspired with Rome (Emporer Vespasian and his son/general Titus) to destroy the rest of the believing community in Jerusalem...the true Yahudim, along with the Temple. It was another necessary 'sacrifice' for them to remain IN POWER. The devil was/is desperate to maintain his ILLIGITIMATE power.

Rabbi Yochannan ben Zachai looted the Temple and snuck out of Jerusalem in a casket just before the pre-conspired destruction. He remained that long so that the trap he had set would not be detected by the masses until the gates had been (figuratively and literally) closed behind him. History tells us that he had already transferred Temple treasuries and the seat of power to Yavneh on the coast of the Mediteranean in the southern part of Israel (Edom). He, and Rabbi Akiva whom I will discuss at more length momentarily, had conspired to murder the Messianic community and in large part that is exactly what transpired with the destruction of Jerusalem. This is what is being referenced in the historical portion of Obadiah where it talks about how Edom had been part of the conspiracy with Rome to loot and destroy Jerusalem and kill off TRUE ISRAELITES, the Messianics, even to the point of standing in the fork of the road to capture (and kill ) those who were attempting to escape. These devils seethed with hatred toward those who exposed them as liars and threatened their political stranglehold on the people. Yahwshua knew the prophecies regarding Edom. This is why he warned us so many times in advance of what they will do to us. It shall happen again but this time WE SHALL PREVAIL AS PROMISED!

The Edomites in control of the 'Jewish' community had conspired with Rome to set up a trap to murder the Messianic believers and all others they deemed as 'undesirables' in Jerusalem. They made the transition to their new seat of power at Yavneh and they elevated Rabbi Akiva to prominent status as teacher of their 'new community.' Akiva immediately set out to obscure all the historically understood prophecies regarding the Messiah so that, by using their Talmud (placing its authority above YHWH's true authority), they could continue to usurp authority by claiming they alone had the authority to interpret scripture...and deny anyone else the opportunity to question their (illegitimate) authority. This was done so that they could PROFOUNDLY change the history and teachings of historical faith which had been clearly illuminated by the Messiah they had murdered. They wanted to end this threat to their power and they did. To this day the Edomite Rabbinics do not teach of the historical Messiah of the scriptures but rather against him. THEY HATE THE TRUTH! They twist the scriptures (through their translations) to say ridiculous things like the 'suffering servant' of Is. 53 is actually THE ENTIRE NATION suffering throughout history (propping up their own false flag 'holocaust' which we will also expose, as their 'evidence')...as if they had ever been pure, spotless, and silent so as to qualify as the sacrifice according to the details of the contract. What blasphemy!

Akiva, the acknowledged father of today�s Edomite Rabbinic Deception, was actually a Messianic proselyte who, after ignoring the warnings and rebuke of the Messianic brethren to give up his necromancy (practice of witchcraft), was ex-communicated from the Messianic community before the Temple's destruction. He became very bitter and joined the Pharisaic (Edomite) movement and joined in with the Edomite conspiracy with Zachai and Vespasian in moving their seat of power to Yavneh before the destruction of Jerusalem and the mass murder of TRUTH.

Akiva was the first to begin attempting to change the age old understanding of key Messianic scriptures to mean something altogether new. He twisted the scriptures into all manner of contortions in order to attempt to invalidate the age old, plain text understanding of scripture that had come to light with the first advent of Messiah. This form of heresy continued with the teachings of 'Maimonide' (also known as the 'Rambam') in the late 12th and early 13th centuries. This SEETHING EDOMITE HATRED TOWARD HIS BROTHER ISRAEL has been carried on by the Edomite Rothschild family line since they became a powerful business family at the end of the 1700's. This hatred for the Messiah has forced them to attempt to change the plain text meanings of Scripture so that their maintenance of this grotesque manipulation will force them to once again become venomous murderers ruling over Jerusalem. This message exposes their complicity and their EXISTENCE. It is the end time message for which WE MUST STAND AS WITNESSES EVEN UNTO DEATH (from which we shrink not if we trust the gospel promises as heretofore laid out; death for us is only TEMPORAL). This is why the masses who claim to be Jews today, cannot see the truth. They are blinded by their willful allegiance to their Edomite rulers/handlers just as all the nations have been.

This conspiracy of Edomites who held, and wanted to maintain, their ILLIGITIMATE AUTHORITY with the destroying forces, the Romans, is EXACTLY the history being referenced in the prophecies of Obadiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel we looked at earlier. No other time in history fits so well as the facts regarding this history WHICH IS NEVER TAUGHT; by design. This will bring the 'powerful delusion' and 'end time deception' right up to the end with a grand finale of a powerful end time faith movement that should dwarf the first; and the subsequent persecution from our own brothers, the Edomite murderers usurping authority, right up to the very end. The cycle is self perpetuating. As more are persecuted, more will come to faith when they see the faith of others demonstrated in REALITY. The truth stands up in the face of Evil and others will take courage and follow suit until at some point the lie is overcome. It is Yisra-El who is removed from the marketplace of ideas (through various means) before Satan can be seated on his throne and call himself 'King and High Priest' on this Earth as scripture declares WILL HAPPEN. But he will not kill us all and we SHALL PREVAIL.

The Edomites perpetuate ignorance of this plan through deception. They have even introduced terms like 'Jew' and 'Gentile', words which do NOT occur in the HEBREW STANDARD. The Biblical terms to understand are Yahudim (YHWH praisers) who compose Israel, and FALSE Yahudim (who coined the term 'Jew') who is EDOM (which is ALL THE OTHER NATIONS which do not fit the profile of Israel) who is PRETENDING TO BE ISRAEL and are TAKING THE KINGDOM BY FORCE BECAUSE THEY ARE VIOLENT AND SEEK TO ESTABLISH THE KINGDOM THROUGH VIOLENCE because they are deceived by Satan.

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 10:28 AM

Yes, Leon, wihtout understanding Romans 9, no one can really understand the meaning of what God was speaking about when He uses the words love and hate toward Jacob and Esau... and this is so very important in understanding God's purpose and intent regaring Esau and Jacob as it relates to the Jews and Gentile... Believers and unbelievers.



Love ya much,



ella

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 10:44 AM

WOW! JHWHsaves... I can adhere to some of your statements, but I also find some are misleading and confusing and do not line up with what God has to say about the Jews and/or Israel.



So I would ask of you: Are you saying that the Jews of today ARE NOT the same Jews God has promised to deliver even in His promises to Abraham and what God has said in His word that the Jews WILL be deliver and WILL be saved as a remnant of Israel, and restore Israel, as in Romans chapter 9-11 and as Isaiah speak in chapters 59- 65, of course there are more than these but just to name a few.



I suppose My question is, are you saying that Israel/ the Jews of Israel today are fakes, and are not the same God speaks about restoring and finding a reminant of Jews who will fulfill His promises of becoming tru ebelievers of Jesus Christ? God's promise to the Jews is from generation to genration, so how can this not be?



ella



Romans chapters 9-11.

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 11:01 AM

Listen! YHWH said that in the end days there would be a POWERFUL DELUSION that takes over the WHOLE WORLD who refuse to love the truth. I know full well that I will likely be MURDERED because of this truth which WILL BE VICTORIOUS IN THE END!



I am telling you that YOU have been deceived and unless you LOVE THE TRUTH...which clearly tells us that in the END DAYS there is a SACRIFICE IN BOZRAH (southern part of the current STATE of Israel) as the result of a CONTROVERSY OVER ZION (and not a false paradigm of being with arabs but with EDOM who is CONCEALED as Israel in the TRUE deception for which Edom is HATED)...that's on you...I WILL DIE EXPOSING THAT LYING MURDERER AS I HAVE BEEN CALLED TO DO! If it has to be at your hands, I still love you!



YHWH bless you as you seek His face DILIGENTLY!

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 11:20 AM

I have spent my life in search of THE TRUTH and my Doctoral Thesis is the summation of THAT TRUTH and at the very heart of it is a STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL...BETWEEN TRUE AND FALSE...BETWEEN SATAN AND YAHWSHUA...BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EDOM WHO ARE STRUGGLING IN THE WOMB OF TIME RIGHT NOW!



I would really appreciate your being more specific on exactly what it is you disagree with. I understand that it is a hard pill to swallow but we have ALL BEEN DECEIVED in many ways and the TRUTH COMES to SET US FREE from bondage to ignorance and deception so that we can, as HIS TREASURED PEOPLE, come out from their deluded world view.



I do love you. I love my brother Edom as well...we are commanded not to hate him...even though HE MURDERS US! What we are to do if we REALLY LOVE HIM is tell him the truth so that individuals like myself (a Jew by physical lineage) can become TRUE ISRAEL in spirit and truth. I know it's difficult to admit we have been wrong...but it is IMPERATIVE to repent from this deception or YOU WILL TAKE HIS MARK! Please, learn the truth or SHOW ME MY ERROR if in fact YOU love ME.



I have loved you enough to SPEND MY LIFE to bring this work to you. I would appreciate more than just a rejection out of hand merely because its and UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH.



YHWH bless you as you diligently seek his face!

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Why did God hate Esau?
Posted : 7 Mar, 2009 11:44 AM

YHWH saves, You listen, I think my question is one for answering. I just would like to know if you're saying that the Jews of Israel OR NOT the same Jews of God's promise?...



I'm not seeking to kill you and I don't think anyone else is either for your opinons and voews as you see things... God's word says that Israel and the Jews of Israel will be SAVED AND RESTORED! So I'm asking you if you are saying in your opinioned doctoral thesis, that Israel and the Jews that we know of tiday ARE NOT the same of God's promise and they WILL NOT receive the promise God has vowed to the people and Israel?...



Now... I ain't into all the rest as to whether you will be killed for what you speak. God's written word is the ONLY truth of what I receive into my spirit to believe.



Help me, and all whose reading your post out here... Just answer the question, no need to go rambling off into no man's land to answer my question... get to the point of what I ask of you. LOL... :winksmile:



love ya back,:glow:

ella

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