Some respond to the doctrine of election by saying "that's not fair!"... Well, that's right. We couldn't agree more. Because if God did what was fair He would let us all go on in our own way to destruction. If God operated on the basis of fairness there would not be a single person reading this today.
Furthermore, synergists declare that God choose us because he foresaw that we would believe. But if God saw something in us that moved him to choose us (because we had the wisdom, sound judgment, or good sense to believe) then grace is no longer grace. Therefore synergists deny salvation is by grace alone. By grace maybe, but not by grace ALONE. In this case grace would only be necessary but not sufficient.
Therefore, we thank God for our salvation because we cannot ascribe our believing to our own good sense or wisdom. Even these blessings are a gift of God. Can we thank God for everything else, but not thank Him for the wisdom to believe? Did we find the desire and wisdom to believe from within our own native resources?. If that were the case, God would get most of the glory but not all the glory.
As a result of this confusion, Arnminian theology cannot honestly declare "Soli Deo Gloria" because it cannot declare "sola gratia"
The following quote shines further light on this:
1. Grace is Alone by Definition - Sola Gratia is Redundant!
There is a sense in which "sola gratia" is redundant! If grace is not "alone" it is not grace! "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6) The grace of God by definition will not admit of any admixture of debt! "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." (Romans 4:4)
2. Grace is Alone as Sovereign - God Will Not Share His Glory with Another!
If grace is not sovereign it is not grace, because God will not share His glory with another! "I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8) "For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another." (Isaiah 48:11) Grace is depicted in Scripture as reigning as a sovereign: �That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.� (Romans 5:21) The God of grace is the giver of every good and perfect gift, �Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.� (Jas. 1:17) He actually reigns as the absolute Sovereign, the King of kings, and Lord of lords. �Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords� (1 Tim. 6:15) �These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.� (Rev. 17:14) �And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.� (Rev. 19:16) The nature of His grace is determined by His nature. The grace of a sovereign is sovereign grace, and the grace of God is absolute in its sovereign nature. It cannot be otherwise. Therefore, it is also redundant to describe God's grace by the modifiers "sovereign" or "free". If God's grace is not sovereign, then it is not grace at all. If it is not free, then it is not grace, and it most certainly is not God's grace.
3. Grace is Alone as Glorious - Pure Unmixed Grace, Sovereign Non-Contingent Grace is Praised by the Redeemed!
It is only such non-contingent, unmixed, sovereign grace of God that elicits the praise of His people: "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence" (Eph. 1:6-8) Sola Gratia, Soli Deo Gloria,
John T. �Jack� Jeffery Pastor, Wayside Gospel Chapel, Greentown, Pennsylvania"
It doesn't take long for this article to go astray; (2nd paragraph 2nd sentence) "But if God saw something in us that moved him to choose us....then grace is no longer grace."
First of all it must be pointed out this is in conflict with your own doctrine which declares God does not arbitrarily choose as one playing duck duck goose. If God does not arbitrarily choose then election becomes conditional. However Grace is still Grace.
None of us merits favor from God which makes any favor from God unmerited favor, ie: Grace. However in this state of unmerited favor God is free to choose those He wishes according to His good pleasure ie: His own conditions. To say anything else would insult the Sovereignty of God and attempt to rob God of His Glory.....as if that were even possible!
First of all it must be pointed out this is in conflict with your own doctrine which declares God does not arbitrarily choose as one playing duck duck goose. If God does not arbitrarily choose then election becomes conditional. However Grace is still Grace.
James replies:
I say again to you:
Just because you do not KNOW WHY God has done something, does NOT mean that God did it 'arbitrarily'.
It just means YOU don't know why.
And you misunderstand what the doctrine of unconditional election means.
The 'unconditional' part is saying that God chooses NOT based upon anything WE HAVE DONE.
Election is conditional upon GOD's CHOICE, NOT upon anything we might do in our lives, just like it says in Romans 9
See, the Arminians said, that God chose us ONLY BECAUSE He saw into the future that we would repent and have faith.
THAT....is CONDITIONAL ELECTION.
Romans 9 says, NOT BECAUSE of anything the twins had done, or would do in life, but ONLY because of GOD'S CHOICE.
There is only one thing that Scripture says election is NOT based on and that is our works; everything else is fair game for speculation. I am not the one putting God in a box by saying God only Elects reformation style!
James by the way the new testament tells us the mystery has been revealed it is not a secret the the things of God the answer is available to who ever asks.
There is only one thing that Scripture says election is NOT based on and that is our works; everything else is fair game for speculation. I am not the one putting God in a box by saying God only Elects reformation style!
James replies:
Romans 9:
when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad�in order that God�s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls� 12she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
The fact that in verse 11 it says that they "had done NOTHING EITHER GOOD OR BAD" precludes anyone from saying "well God just looked into the future and saw who would have faith."
I also find it funny that you would call anyone who says that God is the one who chooses whom he will save as "putting God in a box".
I think the one who demands that each person God creates decides whether or not they will be saved is putting God in a box.
Also, what is objectionable about your view?
I see NOTHING about your view that anyone would find fault with God for believing it.
Paul made a BIG deal out of saying that SOME would find this objectionable:
14What shall we say then?(W) Is there injustice on God�s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses,(X) "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,(Y) "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
And then, since Paul KNEW some Christians would STILL object, he does not soften his statements, he just says it again even more forcefully:
19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For(Z) who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man,(AA) to answer back to God?(AB) Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21(AC) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump(AD) one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Twosparrows, WE are the clay, and GOD is the potter, and HE has the right to do with HIS creation as He pleases.
1) God IS fair. That's why Jesus HAD to die in our place. I sometimes wonder why God didn't just say, to heck with this sin=death thing, I'm God and can do what I like and let who I like into heaven. But the whole concept of truth, justice, mercy, etc. falls flat as soon as you have a god that will cheat or change the rules on a whim.
2) I don't know what specific reasons God had for choosing me; I do know that even my best efforts are like filthy rags to Him, so I don't believe that God chose me because of what I might do or say in the future. Neither do I believe that He chose me because I would believe. I think the only fact we know that fits is that God loves each of us as a father loves his children, and desires that none of us should perish but come to faith in Jesus. Simple as that, no ulterior motives!
3) Some people have worked out for themselves that the bible, and Jesus must be true based on the evidence they see and have (for them, faith doesn't come into it until later). I believe C.S.Lewis was one of them who found that the bible and Christianity is the only truth that made sense. He wasn't approaching it in faith at all as he was an atheist at the time. Of course, once he'd deduced it must be correct and exactly what it claims, he then needed the faith to be able to ask God for forgiveness, Jesus into his life, etc. Was God in it from the beginning? Almost certainly, but Lewis had to work out his own salvation (as it were) first before he'd ever be able to see that.
The flip-side is that we blame God if someone isn't saved, because that must mean He didn't give them the faith or whatever they needed to believe. In truth, God has already done everything He can to give everyone the chance to believe and accept the gift of salvation - but He won't override your free will to choose. And choose you must. It must be 100% your OWN decision to accept Christ or not otherwise you haven't given your life over to Jesus, He's taken it.
Please understand I'm not trying to diminish what God has done for us through Jesus and the cross, or say that our salvation is in any way down to us earning it in any measure; only that people HAVE to take responsibility for making that choice themselves - where they go after this life depends completely on the choice THEY, not God, made.
