that is odd Archemdies, try again, maybe the site was just having trouble.
I don't really have a problem one way or another with what may or may not have happened to Mary, but there is no support for either any theory on this. There is no Biblical reference, as when I was called on this, I researched it. It just isn't there, and I swore it was. I have no idea on where this thought came from, but it isn't Biblical, its doctrine. There are a lot of people that die that there is no record of where their burial is, so I am not surprised by this in a time when records were sketchy at best.
Her place in History faded with the death of her son as she was not and evangelist as the apostles were. My issue is not what happened to her so much as claim. When there is no record to support the claim, it should not be put forth as Gospel. That is the think I sort of have issue with, for it makes me wonder what other things they have twisted for the benefit of the faithful. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good, and I would LIKE it to be true as it is hard for me to accept that I have believed that for all these year, and now I have discovered for myself that support for that "theory" is just not there, it isn't in the Bible, and as a Catholic, I was raised to believe it was. It really does make me question if there are other things I have indoctrinated that will take me another twenty some odd years to figure out might not be as I was led to believe it was. I take the Bible seriously when it says that we are not to change the Word of God. It stand so perfectly well on its own. There is no need to embellish or take away from its truth. If it was relevant what happened to Mary, then God would have put it done there with the other things that were important. How Mary got to Heaven is not relevant, for I am certain she is there. But I think it has been indoctrinated this way, as Catholicism cherishes Mary and lists her up in an exalted way that other faiths do not follow. I think reverence toward Mary is important, for the Lord showed us how His Love and Treatment of His Mother was important, and we should all treat our Mothers in this manner. But Mary was not an evangelist, she did not cast out demons, or perform Miracles. She was simply the very best of all Mothers, a prime example of what Motherhood should be, a testament to patience and virtue, and all that is good in being a Woman and a Mother.
Those things Matter. But her death did not hold significance in her reference to us or God would have included it. There is no more substantiation of her assumption than there is of her being eaten by a fish or drowning in the Dead Sea or walking into the dessert never to return. Because there is no record, we cannot assume she was raptured into Heaven. It is possible she was, but it is just as possible she was not. I don't want people filling in the blanks with something that sounds good. If this "Event" had been witnessed and included into the Gospels by one of the Apostles and included in their books, as they lead their flock to believe, then we would know.
This is why it is important to read the Bible and not to just go to a church where they tell you what it says, for if this is presented as accurate without substantiation, then I still have concerns about what else I may have been taught that I have never questioned but accepted as truth, that might not be.
I know it is a small thing, but in the end times, it may be those small things that in the end lead to a deception that brings us to follow something that may not be true. Twisting scripture into doctrine is dangerous, at very least to one's own salvation if not to the salvation of others, and to lead any astray is something the Lord will hold us accountable for.
The smallest of things do matter, for in the Eyes of God, we are among the smallest of things.
I ahve to be careful here because whomever is moderating is touchy when it comes to Catholicism. Scripture tells us in John that there were many things that Jesus said and did, but were not written in any book. The Apostle knew and what if they passed on this knowledge to trustworthy men (elders) and so on until today. What if Jesus Himself promised that The Holy Spirit would ensure that this Deposit of Faith would not be corrupted and that it would endure til the end of time.
Question: Using scripture only -- show me where in The Bible it says which books and letters are the ones that should go in the New Testament? What did The Church use to decern what was Inspired by God and what was not? And please don't say they used the Old Testament.
The Church held councils that spanned over 30 some years and they compared the over 300 books and letters circulating at that time to What They Already Knew To Be True -- The Deposit of Faith given to Her by Christ.
Another question: What would you say was the Foundation and Pillar of All Truths? I hope this is excepted and allowed through.
My friend, I believe the inspired books were all written by the apostles and/or were corroborated by other books, as well as eye witness testament or other proof.
I know there is a whole process of debate that things have go go through before they are accepted as such, for otherwise you or I could write our own versions and if they sound good enough, they could be accepted.
There are many other works and documents of the times that do substantiate the eye witness testimony and such of varying records of the times. I am not a theology major so I am by no means the one to start laying down that proof before you, but I have watched many a debate on the history channel about such things, the pro's an con's proof for and against questions raised like was there really a Jesus or the books that were not included in the Bible etc.
I personally think it is good to be aware of all these things and for them to be presented for what they are, but not to be presented for what they are not. Such as Lilith, she is the rumored woman before Eve. Is it possible? Sure. It may well have happened. It might also be fictitious, but is it good to be aware of it, yes. In fact it may explain a lot when it comes to many issues of today like abortion, but I recognize that it is not an inspired work of the Bible, and while it may explain a lot, it may or may not be true, and one needs to remember such things when you are looking at the Truth.
Just like the Assumption of Mary thing. It may have happened, but it also may not. It is good to be aware that it could go either direction. It still goes back to what I said, we are told to believe that scripture is true, and for us to believe this, we need to protect it and not indoctrinate our own theology into it.
This is why I think it is good to look at historical debate over things that support or contradict the Bible for as the Word says, "even the rocks cry out unto the Glory of His Name" Archeology reflects this.
Archemidies, I highly recommend something I think you would thoroughly enjoy called "The Truth Project". It takes a lot of world issues, social, science, theology and such and explores the many facets of the issue from the world perspective and the Biblical perspective. It is a series, of which I have only seen about three myself, and cannot wait till they run it again in a few months in my church, cuz it was so very interesting.
I don't necessarily believe that our ignorance of what we believe is true, next to the way things really are will exclude us from the Kingdom of Heaven, for I really do believe that God holds us responsible for the condition of our heart, and if we choose to lead, what we teach that is or is not in accordance with His Word.
I think it is good that we think for ourselves to a point, but I think we should always keep what we believe to be within the Word. I think that is why it is truly important to know the Word of God and not just take someone's word for it, or you can end up following a Jim Jones or a David Koresch or even a Charles Manson.
I know a lot of people bash the Catholic church and honestly, I think that is really harsh, for I don't think any of us have the market cornered on what the complete and total truth on things really are, but I do believe it is the driving force within us that we nurture to be near Him that is what matters above all, for if we try to live like Jesus and Be like Jesus because we LOVE the Lord and Want to be near Him and be like Him, well honestly, is that not the real deal? For even in the Bible, it wasn't those that thought they knew things that He did amazing things with, it was those that simply loved Him, followed Him and Wanted to Know Him and be Near Him that Great Things happened through Him.
Sometimes I think the simpler our faith becomes, the stronger it becomes. We often slice and dice things that are not terribly relevant, when what we need to concentrate on things we know are the truth.
Mary is in Heaven, we know this in our hearts for the Love between her and her Son, does it matter how she got there? Not really. We just have to be careful on what we accept as truth, for the day of deception fast approaches us when the truth will be made to look like a lie, and the Lie will be made to look like the truth. I encourage people that are confused about the Truth to err on the side of caution and live in obedience to what the expectation of our Lord God Almighty will find acceptable unto Him, for people use their doctrines to justify their actions for what they want to do, when our ways are not His ways. There is a lot of buffet Christianity out there that is presented to justify hatred, immorality, and self centered actions, none of which is in teaching with the Ways of our God, but are completely in the ways and teachings of the great deceiver, who is here to mislead us, to kill us and destroy us.
Dwell not on the things that are uncertain, but dwell on the things that are true and important and matter to the Lord God Almighty, for in that you will find peace, where chaos and confusion exist, so does the realm of the demonic.
I admire your Love for your Faith and God and the way you present your views with Love. It is always difficult discussing differences in one's Faith and quite often it leads to anger and perhaps it is something best left off this site. Still, I have had to defend my faith (Catholicism) most of my life and thusly have learned so much of my faith because of having to do so.
I have gone back and read what the Early Fathers of the Church wrote (the were long winded, but had a lot to say). Take for instance what Clement of Alexandria wrote: "Words are the progeny of the soul. Hence we call those that instructed us fathers" (Stromateis 1.1.2-2.1; cf. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 4.41.2). He was speaking of what Irenaeus wrote in 'Against Heresies'.
I would certainly not call these writings God's Revelation but they were written by Godly People who were instructed by Teachers that could trace their lineage directly to The Apostles throught the Laying On Of Hands. Yes, some of them were incorrect in explaining Doctrine, but whenever that got out of hand a Council would be called and the definition would be hammered out Once and for All Time. Everyone would then adnere to that definition.
This is how The New Testament was put together. Which begs the question "How did The Church decide which Books and Letters were Inspired and therefore should go into The Bible?" Did they use scripture? The only scripture available was The Old Testament. What they used was what they already had -- The Truth, the Whole Deposit of Faith given to them by Christ and held Incorrupt by Trustworthy Elders and guarded by The Holy Spirit. They compared the over 300 books and letters that were being circulated and believed and used in the Masses as Inspired and compared them to the Truths thay already had. If you were living back then, would you tell them "No, you can't do that."
God knows us very well. He knew what we would do with His Plan of Salvation. That is why He named a Vicar here on earth to lead His Church and He also sent The Paraclete (Counciler), The Holy Spirit to ensure that His Word would remain incorrupted and unchanged.
This brings me back to my last question -- "Where in scripture does it have a list of which Books and Letters were to be placed in The New Testament?" I believe this is something that any Christian would want to answer for themselves by searching for The Truth -- in Scripture, in the Writings of The early Church, in Their Godly Hearts. The Truth should be able to be Held Up to the Light of God and found clear of deception. If there is any doubt in your minds or hearts, then you need to remove it by searching for the Truth. You take what is in The New Testament as God's Word by the Authority of a Church that you acknowledge, but you will not acknowledge it's athourity anywhere else. The dark one uses our higher facuties to decieve us. Think about my question and I will listen to your answer. Thank you again for this dialogue and...
Catholic is not wrong...Roman Catholic is what makes it wrong..
in the prophecy of Daniel, when King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream and had it interpreted by Daniel, it ended up to the conclusion that Roman Catholic is the Mark of the Beast as described in Revelation.
They are the modern Babylon..The mother of Apostasy..
if you are not sure of this, go and search the Scriptures..
search for the Daniel and Revelation Seminar in the net.
you csan also get through AmazingFacts.com...
thank you.
God bless you and prepare to meet thy God.(Amos 4:12).
