I feel like I have to keep repeating myself because an individual on here isn't getting it. You know there's always one of those in class....heeeheeee.
These 3 women that I mentioned raised babies without their biological fathers. There is no proof in the bible stating that the biological fathers were there raising their babies. We all know what a biological parent is....correct?
Hope we can get past that now Jimmeny Crickets....Sakes alive....Geeeeee Whiz....:-)
No baby is a mistake, whether it's a slave baby, a Pastor or murderer all babies are created by the will of God. God wouldn't allow a baby to be born that's not his will. God's in control we're not especially when it comes to babies. I'm outraged that anyone on board a Christian website would call a slave baby of God a mistake. That baby Ishmael was anything but a mistake and he was God's will.
Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18 Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.
20 So God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness and became an Archer.
First, Ishmael was a kid, a lad not a man. Even the Angel of God called the kid a lad not a man. So if you want to deny what the Angel of God called Ishmael then that's on you. Nowhere in these verses does it state that the kid was 13 if that was the case.....in the Angel of God's eyes this was a lad not a man regardless of his age cuz the bible says so. He was relying on his mother to care for him, (not the other way around if he was a man he would've been caring for his mother). Ishmael was a child dependent on his mother caring for him so he wouldn't die. God blessed Hagar by giving her water to save both their lives. If God condemned them he wouldve had them die in the desert which he didn't. He overly blessed them because in vs 18 he tells her he is going to make Ishmael a great nation and vs. 20 God was with the lad. What can be happier for a mom to hear than God is with ur child. Those are the words I crave to hear when I have my baby with this procedure.
Hagar was all alone in the desert being responsible for raising her baby and God had mercy on her and blessed both her and her baby.
We don't worship Mother Mary she was a great woman but a sinner like us all. Mother Mary and Joseph were the number one example of parenting in the bible we must follow since they were the parents of Jesus. Mother Mary never had to marry Joseph she could've raised the baby on her own, but she didn't. That says alot to me that tells me I should find a man that I love to help me raise my future baby just like Mother Mary did. There are beautiful families out there just like Mary and Joseph who stepped up to the plate and parented a child who wasn't their biological kid. It's not wrong to do this and they aren't sinning just like Mother Mary and Joseph weren't sinning. I'm constantly praying that God sends me my husband soon to help raise my baby by this procedure.
No baby is a mistake. Are you saying that Moses and Samuel are mistakes because they didn't have biological parents raising them. How absurd to the contrary these men became great men because God blessed them and didn't condemn them.
So what ur stating is noncompliant because there are numerous of babies who were raised either by no biological parents or one biological parent and God blessed them and didn't condemn them.
Tamar is another one who wasn't condemned by God. If God condemned Tamar he would've had her burnt at the order of Judah but he didn't. The reason is because it was God's will for her to have beautiful twins.
You are wrong to say that Tamar and the twins lived with Judah the bible never states this. That is ur interpretation. What exactly does it mean when it says Judah never knew her again? I believe that means that Judah never had sex with her again. You expect me to believe that Judah is going to care for her and the twins when she tricked him and he's not getting sex. Wrong answer.
If Judah would've accepted Tamar then he would've had sex with her again the bible states clearly he didn't. So believe there is more scripture proving he rejected her instead of accepted her.
What about Tamar stance in this? I believe that she took her babies and ran and raised her babies with others or by herself. Why on earth would a smart woman like Tamar who goes after what she wants stay with a man who lies to her, sleeps with what he thinks is a harlot(herself) and threatens to burn her. She's way savvy and smarter than that. Doesn't make any sense why she would stay with a man she lost all respect for. She just wanted the babies so she took her babies and ran. Also bible never states when she was in labor with the twins there was no mention of Judah being in the picture at all. Usually the bible will state when the men begat children so it's like she's on her own.
Ur theory of happily ever after doesn't hold true because the bible isn't a fairy tale. Face the facts there are many babies in the bible whether you like it or not weren't raised by biological parents and God said it's o.k. cuz he didn't condemn the babies or the parents who weren't biological.
There's also lovely barren Hannah who prayed for a son over and over and finally God answered her prayer. I feel I relate to Hannah the most. How awesome is God cuz not only did he give her Samuel he blessed her with a couple more kids after her. I believe God blessed her favorably because of her unyielding persistence to have a baby and not be barren. Hannah never gave up and pray I can be a 10th of the woman she is because I admire her so much. Hannah kept her word and gave Samuel to a church. So little Sammy was raised in a church with no biological parents and he turned out to be an amazing man who was very blessed by God. Hannah was blessed by giving her child up to be parented by parents who weren't biological. Hannah was blessed for doing this by giving her more kids. We never can understand the perfect will of God. We must accept help when it's offered to us and leave the rest in God's mighty hands.
The bible proved by all these stories and many more that he doesn't care who raises the baby whether it's a single parent, bilogical parent or someone who's not biological. He can bless any baby or parent in this situation as long as you are placing him first in both ur life and ur baby's life.
If you believe that everyone in the bible has both a biological parent and mother then ur reading a different bible than the Holy Bible. Even Jesus himself had a father who wasn't biological raise him. Be a man face the bible facts.
Trust in Jesus.
Gbu
Kimberly:-)
His own mother refers to him as a boy not a man in verse 16.
"That baby Ishmael was anything but a mistake and he was God's will."
Kimberly,
With all due respect, have you read Genesis 16 and understand what it really means concerning Sarai, Abram and Hagar?
Sarai did something that goes against the nature of wives - to give another woman to her husband. She probably did this because she knew the promise of God (that Abram would be the father of many nations), yet she thought she was the problem with God�s promise being fulfilled. So in an effort to �help God out,� she allowed her husband to make her servant pregnant. Even though this early form of �surrogate motherhood� was common and accepted in that day, it doesn�t mean it was right. God is clearly not leading Abram and Sarai.
The long waiting for the promise discouraged them and made them vulnerable to acting in the flesh. Yet, even after this, it would still be more than 13 years until the child of promise came.
When we impatiently try to �help God out� in the flesh, it accomplishes nothing and may even prolong the time until the promise is fulfilled. Jacob had to live as an exile for 25 years because he thought he had to �help God out� to get his father�s blessing. Moses had to tend sheep for 40 years in the desert after he tried to �help God out� by murdering an Egyptian
Sure, God had great plans for Hagar�s child. He would become a great nation. Ishmael became the father of all the Arabic peoples. God said he would be a wild man and his hand would be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren [Gen 16:12]
Today�s battle between Jew and Arab is nothing new. Both Jews and Arabs are descended from Abram by two half-brothers: Ishmael and the son to come later from Abram and Sarai, Isaac.
The entire conflict can be traced back to Abram�s decision to �help God out� in the flesh, both when he agreed to inseminate Hagar, and when he went to Egypt to begin with. The effects of our sin may reach far beyond what we ever imagined.
Think about that when you try to "help God out" in your desire to have a child. You can do as Sarai did by getting a child at whatever the cost, or you can fully trust God for the promise of what His will will be, regardless of when that promise comes, regardless of what His will may be.
For a woman to say go and have sex to make a baby out of wedlock.This is not gods will, is asking for trouble.Sarah was not thinking.She wanted Abraham to have adultery with another woman.This was not Gods will.Even though Ishmael was blessed he had a father until he was 13.I call 20 year olds kids.if you study the customs of that day you would know the facts.At 13 you were an adult ,man.Getting married at 14-16 years old. I have taken bible college coures and was required to know some of these customs to have a better understanding of the word.This is not my opinion but facts from college courses taught by my pastor and a few others at my church with bible degrees.
A proverbs 31 woman is wise and will wait on god to act.She does not become impatient.She knows god will deliever in his time.We have a choice to act out of gods will or inside gods will.
A proverbs 31 woman is loyal to her husband before marriage and will wait until after marrisge to have a child.Because she is wise and knows gods will.
After Jesus and fasted 30 days with out food Satan came to him.
Then satan tempted Jesus by challenging him.Satan used gods word to twist it around to distort the truth.But Jesus corrected the false statements.
If a person will have a baby out of wedlock then she or he would do that after marriage with somebody else.having children is to be inside of marriage only.Anything else is not in gods plan.
To say otherwise is not biblical and not from god.When I date a woman I check to see how she behaves after she got saved.
A proverbs 31 woman behaves like a lady and waits for the man to lead the household.
A woman who is unwise will twist gods word to excuse her unwise choice.having a baby out of wedlock is not wise.It reminds me of sarah who could not wait.I would not date someone like that.She would undermine my authorty as husband after marriage.I will only date a 31 proverbs woman.Dennis
Intrauterine Insemination isn't sex so it can be called having sex outside of wedlock. Intrauterine Insem is a medical procedure. The very reason I'm finding myself in this very situation is because I'm against sex outside of marriage. If I believed in sex outside of marriage which I don't would've been pregnant long time ago.
Intrauterine Insem is a medical procedure that if a girl was a virgin she would still be one after the procedure.
Noone on here knows no matter how much you state ur opposition you would have to be God to know if this was his will or not. The only way I'm going to know is not by any of ur comments it's by trying the procedure and if I end up pregnant it's his will and if not it's not. None of you know that it's not his will because ur not God and only God knows his will.
God uses us as a tool to have his babies he doesn't need our help to create babies. He created the world by himself with noone and can certainly create a baby by himself. So I'm not helping God to get pregnant period he's doing all the work. God gets all the credit when a precious baby is born and noone else same principle when he uses you as a tool to bring someone to Christ. God gets all the credit.
I would be tickled pink if God gave me an Ishmael because the bible clearly states that God walked with Ishmael those simple words are enuf for me.
So whoever out there makes comments that just because Intrauterine Insem isn't in the bible that....that makes it wrong. I find this a ridiculous assumption. So does that mean life support, pace makers and brain surgery is wrong too because it's not in the bible. I should think not. You have to use discernment that the Holy Spirit will individually give you whether something is right or wrong for each person.
Something that may be wrong for one person may be right for another based on the Holy Spirit conviction,
I strongly believe this procedure is God's answer to my prayers for many years. I've been praying faithfully for years for a husband and a baby and now I have just a few years left of prime baby producing time in me. Men don't want to marry women now days only about 25% of men marry cuz why should they marry when they can get the cow for free. I believe God knows men haven't been doing their part and these are Christian men too divorcing, not marrying and shacking up with nonchristian women. So God had to answer all these numerous of righteous ladies prayers that he's placed the desire in their hearts to have babies. He gave us all this medical technology in which we can have a baby remain pure and not have sex out of wedlock.
Most ladies that do this procedure have a father figure for the baby which in my case it will be my Dad until God gives me my future husband. See how great I turned out by being raised by my Dad....heeehee. My baby will have the great honor of being raised by her biological Grandpa. So the sky is the limit for my potential little baby.
I get more and more excited as time gets closer to get to be a Mom. I want a baby because God placed that desire there and I want to leave a part of me in someone else to carry on my family legacy. I also want a baby that I can shower with all my love and nurturing to love them unconditionally and have them love me the same. Most important I want to share Jesus with my baby to share Christ's love and to train he or she in the ways of the Lord.
Gbu
Kimberly:-)
One of you thinks just because Intrauterine Insem isn't in bible like
I have been to orphanages. I have seen hundreds of babies that have no one to love them. They grow up with little contact, little care, and no one to tell them about God. They end up on the streets, most of them dead within two years of leaving the orphanage.
I have been to orphanages that have rooms where they put the babies that are not thriving. There is nothing they can do but wait for the babies to die. There is no one to hold these babies and love them.
I cannot agree with you, sister, in your passionate insistance that you WILL have a baby on your own.
With all the babies already born in the world that need to be loved, that need a good Christian woman to love them and care for them and teach them about God --- I don't think it is right for you pursue a selfish desire. God has already given you babes to love --- look up! Look at the fields - they are crowded with babies! The Lord is waiting for willing hearts to take them as their own. (my own paraphrase)
Found a blooper in last post as usual. Meant to say Intrauterine Insem is not sex outside of marriage.
By the way I know the story of Sarah and Abraham didn't bring it up in last post cuz was trying to make a different point. Since you did I will. Just curious why didn't God punish Sarah condem Sarah for doing this. It's because God understood that he placed that desire in her heart to have a baby. Seems like anytime there are women wanting babies in the bible God has mercy on these women. I believe cuz he sees that these women are willing to sacrifice and place a baby over themself which is the very opposite of selfish. All this world understands is cars, homes and think something is wrong with you when you want a baby. It's really the other way around. We are not to be conformed to this world. I want to be like the great women in the bible who loved children and craved babies.
Maybe there's hope for me yet, because seems like the barren women get blessed with the greatest babies in the bible. Sarah was blessed with Isaac, Hannah with Samuel, mother of Sampson, Elizabeth of John the Baptist and the list goes on. I will be happy with any baby period doesn't have to be a great baby like these. Cuz whatever baby God blesses me with... will be the greatest baby in the world to me personlly.
Only God has the power to create human life and take it away.
No baby is ever a mistake and still can't get over that anyone could possibly think such a thing.
Gbu
Kimberly:-)
Something that gives me hope and comfort is that there are many women in the bible who were barren for long periods of time.
RO 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
What we need to remember is that God has a plan for our life. We can go along with that plan, or he gives us the option of going on our side trips. What this passage means is that in the end the LORD will bring us back to His plan if we let him. But, we can do things by our will and mess up the plan. Too many times, I have heard people tell me that they prayed and prayed about something until God said,"Okay." In looking at the mess that was the result; it wasn't God who said, "Okay," instead the person listened to and responded to their own prayer by doing their own will not God's.
Abraham was to have only one child, Issac, but he had Ismael and other children from another wife.
GE 25:1 Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. 3 Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Asshurites, the Letushites and the Leummites. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanoch, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah.
Just one of those caused sin and trouble for Israel.
The trouble in the Middle East comes from the decendents of Ismael, Esau and Lot along with others.
Time and again in the Bible, people helped God by putting their plan in place. In the end will come good, but getting to the good can be bad times.
are we still debating this? well Kim, if you were adopting a kid that didn't have any parents to raise them, i would be totally with you.
if you were married and your hubby couldnt get you pregnant and you decided to get A.I. i wouldnt have a problem.
but my disagreement is with PRODUCING a child knowing that he/she doesnt have a dad waiting for them.
if you were already pregnant, that would be one thing. if you were adopting a kid, you would be providing a better environment than a child who didnt have a parent or had unfit parents.
Im not saying this is evil but i would consider it unwise. in the case of Judah and Tamar. Judah may not have slept with tamar again but I would guess that judah did raise the children as the father, thus, the kids were not without a father figure.
there are enough children being raised without dads. it seems like poor judgment to CHOOSE to add to that number.
dear fury, i just have one question for ya...,,,,,
why come is it that last night you called me names and insulted me alot and said that this subject had been beat to death and that i was terrible for continueing to speak my beliefs on the subject just because i spoke my beliefs on havin a child out of wedlock on another post i started here.
and then to my surprise tonight i see that you are still beatin that same dead horse and you feel its ok for you or others to continue to speak your peace on the subject,, but yet you dont think its ok for me to continue to speak my beliefs.. without me name callin and insultin others, why is that?
We can believe different and disagree like adults. Don't be a child about it.
I must have missed something. Sounds like I should be glad I did. People that disrespect, judge others and call people names in my book are nobodies and immature. I have no respect for people who do such things and they don't exist in my world.
If anyone on here believes for one second I'm on here to get ur approval ur sadly mistaken. I don't seek approval from sinners like myself.
I'm on here to defend what I believe cuz hopefully sooner than later I will have a baby via this procedure and will have to defend me and my baby out in the real World. This is just a test run. Must admit u guys are giving me a good run for my money. But feel I'm debating back and holding my own quite swell. My future baby would be proud. Archie's right I'm a warrior like Joan of Arc. I stand up for what I believe in regardless how much opposition I face. I don't bow to anyone besides God.
The only approval I seek is my family's and God's approval noone else.
Whoever made the comment that they believe couples should have IUI and not single ladies all I have is one word for them, DISCRIMINATION!
