SEEKING THE ONE WHO DOES NOT LIVE UNDER THE WRITTEN CODE WHERE MEN SAY THEY "RULE" A WIFE; I AM FREE IN CHRIST.
I DESIRE THE ONE WHO WILL WALK WITH ME AND FOLLOW HIM AS HE SAID WE WOULD.
Eph 5:30
"For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."
(That is Christ the new Adam, not man, good grief).
Christ head of the Church, as in ALL born again believer's have Christ Jesus as their head the same as Adam was the head of eve, or woman.
Genesis 2:23;
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
MAN HEAD OF WOMAN, AS IN ADAM! NOT BORN AGAIN, UNDER LAW!
( therefore, "man head of woman as Christ head of Church" clearly separates the law from the Cross; the flesh head from the Spirit head). (flesh born of flesh is dead, Spirit born of Spirit is life and peace).
Where I once was born of flesh and walked in the flesh (old Adam) I am now born again of the Spirit and walk in the Spirit and am alive and not dead. (taken out of Christ as the new Adam).
I am not looking for a dead man, but a live one, please.
Some men are under the delusion that men by the mere fact that they are male are appointed as a wife's leader, head of her home etc. please. I am keeping Christ and my life!
Galatians 5:18
If we live by the Spirit, let's also be guided by the Spirit.
Interesting enough to me, this does NOT say "led by man as your spiritual guide". PLEASE!
I am disgusted by men who call themselves Christians, as IN CHRIST, yet degrade women and say God said I will rule over you as Adam ruled over Eve - I am the authority over your life, this is Biblical truth and your a heretic if you say otherwise.
My God, help Your people, I am so sick of this false doctrine, what is wrong with these men?
Are they that stupid? Are they Spiritually dead yet call themselves alive in Him?
I cannot understand how a person will say they are a born again beliver and be so deceived and at the same time also condemn others for being free as Christ said we are.
He shall be the head of the house of Jacob forever and ever. Meaning, He alone is the head of your house, NEVER would He give His position as head to anyone! It says, forever.
He did NOT say any man will be the head of His Body, but that HE alone is the head by which all things are knitted together.......
What is wrong with these men - somebody please tell me.
What is wrong with them is that they don't try to twist the word of God to say what they want it to say.
I am not saying a man has the right to control or order a woman around, they are to lead by loving example. Never out of a misplaced sense of power.
I am not going to even get in to your interpretation of scripture, mostly because I don't believe, even you, can really believe what you were saying. Don't let a few bad Christian men make you into a false prophet.
Does man lead woman, Yes! Do wives submit to husbands, yes! Does that give either of you the right to be abusive to the other? Never!
Don't try to make the word fit your life, make your life fit the word of God.
I apologize for the warning about being a false prophet.
I can not agree with you because there are too many other verses that say the opposite of what you are saying. The Bible has no contradictions, so if there is even one verse that disagrees with your position, you are wrong.
I see you quoting Paul. What about all the things he wrote about the differences in the roles of men and women? I am sorry you feel as you do. The Biblical Marriage can be such a beautiful relationship when neither party try to take advantage of their roles. As so many men take advantage of the leadership role, many women take advantage of the lack of Bible direction to love their husbands.
Paul's instructions can be wonderful, but easily twisted to our destruction as Peter warned.
After reading your posts I also did so of your profile. It would appear that you are very knowledgeable of Scripture.
One passage which you quote also happens to be a very favorite of mine. I pray to have the love spoken of in 1 Corinthians: 13 ~ inside of me, and for others. It is so easy in this fallen world to let our hearts become hardened ~ so I pray often for God to give me a heart of flesh ~ that is tender.
Woundedness can cause us to build up such walls ~ in a vain attempt to avoid hurt. I know that temptation has been present on many occasions in my life...and have even given into it for a season. But for me it is so worth going to the One who knows our hurts even better than we know them ourselves ~ and who longs for us to reach out to Him in our pain ~ so He 'can' heal us. He is 'always' for us.
The Scriptures do in fact teach much differently than how you present them. However, in my estimation, I don't think your issue is an exegetical or hermeneutical one, but a personal one. Men who lord their position over their wives, who treat them as slaves or second class citizens, who take pleasure in bossing their wives around because they are power-hungry--these men are doing something that is detestable. The reaction in our culture has been feminism, where women have assumed the rights that the spirit of the Founding Fathers would convey.
Reading the Bible and memorizing passages is different than understanding the spirit of the Word. I think it is very difficult to imagine what a godly, biblical husband would be like if one did not witness this in their own life. It is too far off from our culture, which sees usually either one of three situations- (1) the man and woman are kind of co-leaders, each trying to share equal responsibility in every aspect of the relationship. (2) The woman is the leader, and the man is a baffling, self-deprecating fool (such as Everybody Loves Raymond). (3) The man is a dominating, selfish military leader over his wife who is silent, lifeless and miserable.
Of these three situations, probably the most LOVING is the one where they share everything, because they are submitting to one another, compromising, considering the other person, etc.
However, none of the three are the biblical version, and none of the three encompass what God intended for the marriage union to represent (remember, Eph. 5 has the man representative of Christ over the church). I think that what would encourage you most in life would be to witness the biblical version, which may be hard to find, but boy, is it a sweet savor when you do see it. Perhaps only then would you be open to other interpretations of the texts you have, as the other response aptly put, twisted. We all twist texts because of our sin nature and our inherent proclivities, but we should seek humility and put the truth of God's word over what we would like to hear. It always turns out that in the end, God's truth is the best for us, anyway.
Well, I remain disgusted then, not by people, but by a false doctrine, Jesus is the husband to the Church, His Bride; He is the head and the Lord has given a Word in my Church by the man and Prophet of God.
The Spirit of God says there is an unbelievable to some, force, a gale force, being released to come and to wipe away; to come to restore. I have heard you inviting Me. So many things were taken illegally by forces that did what they did to the Son of the Most High God.
For had they known the mystery of God they would not have crucified the Lord on High.
Had they known the mystery of God they would not have attempted to come against your children, against your homes, against your business, your finance, your hearts, your emotions.
Had they known the mystery of God they would not have endeavored to crucify what was rightfully yours.
They endeavored to crucify your righteousness, they endeavored to crucify and remove and bury what was rightfully yours.
So when you set aside your inhibitions and start letting His Spirit operate through you, you're going to look strange to those who are strangers to His ways...but you're going to look wonderful to the Lord!
I guess I "look strange to you all then" so be it.
The Spirit of God says, you are surrounded by a great cloud of witness, the greats of yesterday that stood out amongst men, amongst royalty and made a difference, are surrounding you.
For there was a sound in each one of their spirits when they faced the giants of their time - that sound exists in this generation of women, says the Lord of Hosts.
This sound is a sound that has petrified the powers of hell for this same sound existed within Esther.
The same sound existed within Deborah. The same sound existed in Mary when the Rock came forth and Satan has watched the women of this generation and said "no more" but the Spirit of God says, they will arise, and when they arise they will bring forth the Rock Christ Jesus again!
That's what I saw and God said, tell these women, you are the instigators and the initiators of this movement that is about to touch the entire earth.
It has been some time now, says the Lord, that I have focused My attention once again on the women to bring forth the Word, the Rock.
It has been a while now that I have looked for a sound to come from a place where women would arise.
Surely that which belongs to the Lord and belongs to you cannot be taken and if it is put into the hands of your enemy it will only be returned to you with double power and with greater might.
For God says there is an element of resurrection that has not yet been released; That element of resurrection is now emerging from the heavenlies through an open veil.
A veil that was once shut by the unbelief of men.
God said everyone that tries to control Me, I�ll break their hands, I�ll break their feet so that they will have no power to control.
So, the Lord said, now like it or not, men are not the leaders, God is, and He will wipe out these pulpits where men are saying "women follow men" women who are of the Spirit of God are led by God.
If anyone is angry, it is Him, I am not hurt, I am going forward to a new dimension in the Spirit of God.
I will arise and I will conquer that devil, you will certainly see that happen, believe it or not, GOD has not given "man" by the mere fact that he is male, leadership over a woman.
You are correct in that Jesus is the head of the body and therefore He is the head of women, but I noticed that in your argument you left out all the scripture pertaining to marriage and the Biblical roles of man and women. I think it�s very sad when both men and women alike miss the God plan for Godly relationships.
God commands us to submit. First in Col. 3:18, �Wives, be subject to your husbands, as it fitting in the Lord�. And again in Eph. 5:22, �Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord�. Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Again God commands us to submit. �In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior ... [adorn yourselves] with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hope in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husband�, 1Pet. 3:1-5
In looking at submission and marriage, it seems clear to me that structurally women are called to submit to the leadership and direction of their husbands. Given the number of scriptures that spell this out so simply in black and white, I find it difficult to see that the scriptures could mean anything other that what they actually say. Although this area of submission can affect more personal issues (and, yes, be a bit scary), I see submitting to a husband as similar to submitting to any other authority. Trusting that a husband is called and anointed to direct the home is no different than trusting that a pastor or elder is called and anointed to direct a church (or a scout master to direct a troop, or a teacher to direct the Bible study etc.). None will be perfect, but each person is called to do a particular job and will be enabled by God to do so.
What submission is not ...
� mindless obedience:
I think this is covered by understanding Godly disobedience. If someone, anyone, asks you to do wrong, respectfully and graciously say, "No." You are accountable before God for what you say and do.
� chucking your intellect and individuality in the waste basket:
Submitting to a husband isn't about giving up your individuality, your personal tastes or your dreams. It's not about following your husband around drooling "yes man" phrases.
God created husbands and wives to be a team. Husbands are the leader, but their input alone is not enough. The team needs your intelligence, your experience and your perspective also.
Submission is choosing to step into agreement with God's structure of order and trusting Him to work it for everyone's good.
However, the scripture is not one-sided. God gave commands to the man too on how to treat his wife. Ephesians 5:25-26 says, Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her� Additionally, in verse 33 it goes on to say, �Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.� Moreover, Col. 3:19 19 says, �Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them� and 1 Peter 3:7, �You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.�
I believe that it�s vital for both the man and the woman to understand that the man is not the head because he smarter, better, or otherwise superior to the woman in any way. His headship is positional; he is the head because God said so, not because he deserves it in any way. Just as Jesus, who was equal to God in all ways, submitted to the Father, so wives, who are equal to men in all ways eternal, are called to submit to them. God is a God of order, and He requires us to submit to the order He created. When we do this, things work well; when we don't, things end up a mess. While men are not the head because they are better in any way, God always equips us to do that which He calls us to; thus a man who seeks to be the head of his marriage and household will be empowered by God to do the job beyond his own natural ability. Some think being the head makes a man "the boss" who can do what he wants and demand what he wants. This is not what God calls the man to as the head. When we look at Jesus, we see that He was a servant leader. He never demanded or forced His will, even when He knew those around Him were wrong. Jesus was actually rejected by many Jews because He came to serve, not to rule. Likewise we as husbands are called to serve our wives, not rule them. Yes, the are to lead, but it's a leadership based on willing following, not on coercion, force or fear. And any man that follows the Biblical principals of headship I don�t see how you wouldn�t want to submit.
As a woman, it is just about waiting upon the Lord for the man that loves and seeks after Him.
That was a truly beautiful post by someone who has a true understanding of what a Biblical marriage can, and should be.
Like all true leaders, a man is to lead by example. He should lovingly guide his bride. If she is unwilling to follow, he should not try to force her, he should try to find the reason for her refusal, and gently work through it.
Love and order are the two things that should be maintained in a relationship. Never confusion or anger, and especially not force of any kind.
We are never called to make someone do something against their will. A true leader can make others WANT to submit to his authority, just by following Jesus, as he is directed.
I am sorry you are disgusted, but the very first line in one of your posts, Hiswarrior, says, "Jesus is the husband of his bride, the Church." That concept itself is an indicator of what true Christian marriage here on earth should be reflecting.
All around us we have physical pictures of spiritual truths. In the case of marriage, it should reflect the truth about how Christ loves His Church. In many cases, sad to say, we as the people of God are lying to the world about how Christ is toward His bride. When husbands go astray, when they abandon their leadership responsibilties, when they are cruel or abusive to their wives in any way, they are lying and not a true representative of Christ.
There is an excellent book out there that is short and easy to read through called "Reforming Marriage" by Doug Wilson that is eye-opening and any man who is desiring a wife or wants to take on the "husbanding" role should read this. I recommend it to you because you will see that there are godly men out there that will show the truth about how Christ loves His Church and they will and do "give up their life for HER".
I know I probably speak for at least half of the women on this site when I say that some of us have unfortunately been married to those who have not represented the true picture very well. But unless they are called to singleness in life, as was Paul (we believe he may have been married at one point and possibly widowed), then all men are only fulfilled when they have found their "dear rib" as Martin Luther called his wife, the one true person who was a help "meet", or suitable for him and women are only truly fulfilled when they are loved, cherished, protected and allowed to use their gifts to build a strong and mutually beneficial relationship with her husband.
The marriage of one man and one women is what is considered a "creation ordinance". It was not something just written for Old Testament times and dispensed with in the New. How do we know this? Because Christ Himself said, "It Is Written, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife." Any time the words "It is written" is used by the LORD Himself, this means He is referring back to a creation ordinance, not just some ceremonial law.:angel:
I really hope that you understand that none of us who have replied to your post are trying to put you down in any way, and I hope the Lord will illumine your eyes to further truth in His Word as we all need. In the famous words of a great old puritan, "More Light, Lord, More Light!" Amen to that. Your sister in the faith, Alexis:prayingm:
Very well then, in that case, let it be that these men who are so qualified to lead, let them now show their ABILITY to do such.
Leading is much more than just quoting Scripture, it is also HEARING GOD.
Therefore, let them tell us then, what the Lord is saying, what are the Lord's plans then for america, for His people, what is it He is saying will be?
Without a vision the people perish, let them share the vision of the Lord then, let them tell us what is coming that we may be encouraged.
Tell us leaders, let us know then if you lead, let us know what the Lord is saying now since you are so close to Him and you say He has appointed you, tell us what the Lord is saying then, for He never appointed anyone to lead and then not tell them which direction to lead in.
I wait to hear then, what the Lord says and not by the simple quoting of what you like to hear yourself, but what the Lord will say to you.
