Thread: Ya, you heard me, and i ain't gonna apologize!
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Ya, you heard me, and i ain't gonna apologize!
Posted : 19 May, 2011 01:28 PM
So, this may either ruffle feathers or you may agree with it... So, if you don't like this tough cookies. lol, this was in Gods word and I just saw some things many of you probably never saw or many of you have... I may lose my playa card (lol) so be it... Enjoy! haha
In the first chapter of Esther we see that the King made a feast for ALL the nobles as Vashti made a feast for the women. The King (drunk with the men( called vashti to be brought dressed with the crown royal so that all may behold her beauty. Vashti Refused.
Now majority of women would woop and holler and pump their fist in the air crying "power to the women!", and proud that vashti didn't humiliate herself to her drunk husband.
I say, what she did was wrong.
Whoa, whoa, whoa wait a minute, before some of ya'll jump me and take my play card away, hear me out...
Did the King tell vashti to come out and do something vile or contrary to God? No. He told her to come out in queenly apparel to show the people that he had the most beautiful wife and he was proud to have her for himself. Even as a drunk he had her on his mind.
Vashti decided to be defiant and rebel his wish. The result? She humiliated her husband, the King. Consequences: For fear of other women following her damaging example he put her away as wife and Queen.
Many of you perhaps would love to give her a standing ovation for standing to her convictions. But there is another woman BETTER then she, her name is the name of the book: Esther...
Lets see how esther handled her prideful husband...
When haman plotted to kill the jews, mordecai told esther to go before the king uncalled for and plea for the lives of her people. I'm sure Esther wasn't too keen on the idea, but she knew what she had to do... Let me tell you what I saw reading this... my version...
What esther was to ask was a WISE petition and not a foolish one, but she knew in order to get what she wanted shed first have to approach the king with honor and please him. cos once she does that, hes sweet putty in her hands!
She first put on royal apparel, she knew what kind of clothing pleased him, even i'm sure makeup, hair, perfume! (ch5 vs 1)
It also said the king saw his queen standing (not approachin him) in the court yard and what he SAW pleased him and then she approached.
She pleased him with her effot in making herself beautiful for his eyes only and honored/respected his role as husband/king in not just walking toward him with an air of entitlement, but with a TRUE Queenly/confident air stood still to allow her husband to drink in the sight/attitude of this Woman.
This softened him up enough to ask her what her request was, EVEN up to half of his kingdom! What trust! (The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her - prov 31:11).
It impressed me so much that she didn't right away ask what she REALLY wanted. She was wise and patient enough to ask in a gentle, sweet, humble manner that the king AND haman (her enemy) come to a feast she prepared for her husband! (vs 4)
She was still denying herself and still in the "pleasing husband" mode! Its true, a way to a mans heart is through his belly! haha
This next part made me smile, the king was OBVIOUSLY SO pleased and was more soft that he told haman to "hurry up" that they both may do what esther asked. So they both TO her (not her to them)! (vs5)
After the food again the King asked what she wanted...
Esther again amazed me when she said "IF I have found favor in your sigh... IF it pleases you to still act out my request come to another banquet" (vs8)
Her wise wording made him putty in her hands, he now WANTED to fulfill ANY desire she wanted cos she first honored him! You can attract with sweetness not entitlement.
So, on the last day of the feast the Kings curiousity was high as i'm sure his love for her was and his heart has been softened by how she has treated him... Remember, haman was there each time not suspecting a thing...
Heres one thing I noticed about esther, she knew her husband so well. She knew he had a passionate temper!
SIDE NOTE: I've seen husbands who have been sedated by their wives/girlfriends. A woman should NEVER do that... but to lovingly/wisely calm him down and sometimes let her lion of a man loose/roar/tear apart whats in front of him. I see husbands when they are in the heat of a moment/situation that he is single focused. Like in soccer (when I played competitively) when I was playing it was an adrenaline rush, many times i wasn't focused on my surroundings, I was focused on my opponent, and my objection, score a goal. BUT my coach saw ALL of my surroundings what was behind me, to the side, a head of me, what the next best step was for me to do. His/Her whole objection as my coach was to make ME look good, cos then if we win, his/her coaching skills look good. we were both a reflection of the other. Same thing in marriage. The wife is to either lovingly calm down her husband and give a REASON why he should (cos she sees something he doesn't) or sees that he should conquer whats in front of him and let him go... She's supposed to make HIM look good... shes his helpmeet.
Finally, Esther said her request... BUT! She FIRST asked for HER life she now all of a sudden became "selfish" and asked the King to spare HER life and the life of her people second. She knew "I tell him to save strangers lives first he won't care, but I put myself in front of the list, his beloved wife, he'll go through hell and back for me" (ch7 vs3)
Yup, that did it... he was livid... someone would dare touch HIS wife? He was passionately ANGRY, his temper was that of a raging bull! Esther patiently allowed this "volcano" warm up, she was NOT going to calm him down... his uncontrollable temper is what will save her, she knew this... her patience paid off, her efforts in honoring/pleasing him was what was needed, and her putting aside her bitterness for haman but instead inviting him was not foolish nor naive... you'll see why...
the King, a tornado of anger asked "WHO WOULD DARE TO EVEN THINK OF DOING THIS?" (vs. 5)
Esther then wisely directed the Kings passionate temper toward haman sitting there (vs6)... Check Mate.
One may say "she was using/manipulating her husband" No. She was helping her husband. Her people were Gods chosen people, she knew "He destroys them, God destroys my husband." She was his coach and saw his surroundings. Simple.
The man makes the final decision but we women look at the surroundings and bring it to his attention with honor and respect.
YET... Men, you too need to be alert also, cos if a wife just bring a request even if its noble but you know you shouldn't perform it even if shes wise/trustworthy, don't do it.
Eve coaxed adam to eat the apple. Yes, she gave it to him, but he ate it after God told HIM not too.
Sarah told abraham to go into hagar to give them a son, she requested it BUT he performed it after God said Sarah would conceive.
The consequences of both of these: Sin entered the World and seperated Man from God. Isaac and Ishmael are still at War to this very day.
Wow! Lilo, this is one of the best and most interesting posts I've ever read on this site. Normally I skim through long posts, but your way of writing it held me to the end. And I agreed all the way. :) Thank you so much for sharing it!
We women have the gift of....i can't figure out the appropriate word...coersion maybe...an we should use it wisely....u either choose to be a delila or esther...both ladies used the power they had over their men....its important how we treat our husbands....most of my siblings love goin to my mom...if they want somethin frm my dad...or after he has refused to help...cause my mum knws how to 'talk' to my dad...she understands him better....we should not only be submissive to our husbands but also understand them...using the power we hav over them for gud not evil....
Very interesting, Lilo. You have some excellent points there! Esther has always been one of my favorite books, and believe it or not I got to play the part of Queen Vashti in a play at church when I was a kid.
I always thought like you do...Vashti should have obeyed her husband. After all, he was proud of his beautiful wife, and wanted her by his side so that everyone would know how lucky he was to have her! Then I read some commentaries on the subject. Apparently, there are some theologians who believe that the eunuchs that the King sent to find Vashti were likely in charge of the King's harem. These theologians also believe that the King requested that she wear her royal crown...and NOTHING ELSE. Yep. The King wanted the men to see her beauty all right. ALL of it. The Queen refused because he was asking her to do something that would degrade her to the status of a common harlot.
She had to know that there would be consequences of refusing. He was the King, after all. He could have ordered his men to execute her. He could have stripped her of her status and made her a slave. He could have forced her to appear anyway. But she did refuse.
No, she probably didn't refuse because she knew that God would disapprove. She probably refused for selfish reasons. But I think there was probably more to the situation than a simple refusal to submit to a reasonable request from her husband.
Any thoughts on this "different" view of Queen Vashti? I tend to lean toward the "wearing ONLY the crown" idea, but only God really knows! Either way, He was certainly in charge of the situation.
ya, I too have read on the crown royal and nothing else. I actually have a book on both sides arguing the point of was she wearing apparel or just the crown and nothing else! I've studied on it, and well... its simply not clear! haha it could be true, it could be untrue... but the point on what I was making is not necessarily Vashti, I just used her as an example of someone rebelling
against her husband and results of that rebellion. Now ofcourse, if there was CLEAR evidence he was wanting her to come out nude and just a crown, well then ofcourse, I applaud her not showing off her body to mere strangers, as her body should only be seen by the eyes of her husband (as that would be vile/against God, ofcourse if she knew of our God).
But I was just using Vashti "hastily" if one must say. Just quickly, scamming through the scripture (without going through the hebrew studies, or lexicon, etc) for the benefit of Esther.
So ya, I TOTALLY get what your saying about either she was nude or not nude, cos i've read about that, and totally also wonder the same thing still to this day! But my whole point was how Esther showed honor and respect toward her husband and how she treated him, and in return he honored her. Just a thought on what I read briefly concerning marriage, nothing else. :) But now you mentioning again the Crown Royal, you got me itching to find out once and for all... was she naked or WHAT! :) LOL Thanks alot! hahahaha... And to be honest, i'd love to name one of my daughters Vashti... what a LOVELY name! :)
oh ya totally! I mean there is so much more deeper things in the word of God then just the surface "what you read" you know? Like it says in Corinthians "the spirit reveals the deep things of God" so we just scratching the surface! :)
I always thought it was interesting how God called all those people into just the right time and place, causing all those various events to happen. The "party", which was to plan a war, the refusal, hence the need for a beauty contest. The conflict between Haman and Mordecai, etc. etc. So, so interesting to me how that all happened.
God is soverign. God is in control. God has a plan.
So most versions probably state that the king wanted Vashti brought wearing the crown, however this is how the Orthodox Jewish Bible translates it:
"To bring Vashti HaMalkah before HaMelech with the keter malkhut (royal crown), to show th people and the sarim (princes) her beauty, for she was lovely to behold."
Here, it doesn't show her wearing the crown, but she was to be brought with the crown. So while one could say it was just naturally she would be wearing it, it's also possible that in addition to requesting the queen, as an afterthought, the king also requested the crown. Ok, I know, weird thought, just jumped out at me is all, when browsing different version.
