While researching the much-vaunted concept of compatibility in relationships, I came across the following article in oprah.com and wanted to share with all of us:
Which component in a romantic relationship is more important: attraction or compatibility? While many would argue in favor of compatibility, Rabbi Shmuley says it is attraction that is the lifeblood of a healthy, long-lasting and loving relationship. He talks about the true meaning of attraction and why it is at the heart of every great romantic partnership.
In today's society, Rabbi Shmuley says attraction is misunderstood and has been reduced to mean physical attraction, which is ultimately a fleeting force based on novelty. But real attraction, he argues, is much more. "Attraction is the inexplicable, mysterious, magnetic pull of polar opposites�of the feminine to the masculine, the masculine to the feminine," he says.
When a man is attracted to a woman, Rabbi Shmuley says there are five things that should constitute his attraction: Her scent, sound, mind, heart and, finally, her body. Compatibility takes precedence over attraction when these five senses are not fully explored and engaged, he says. "We've so reduced attraction to something so monolithic that it's lost its power, so we've had to fall back on compatibility," he says.
Attraction may create or lead to compatibility, but compatibility alone is not enough to keep a man and woman together for the long haul, Rabbi Shmuley says. Compatibility means having things in common�it means friendship, he says, and couples who embark on a lifelong commitment to one another based solely on the merits of friendship are bound to fail. "The insistence on compatibility as opposed to attraction is what's making relationships so weak these days," Rabbi Shmuley says. "They are so easily torn asunder because the force that binds them is actually a weak one."
Today's Shmuleyism
"In a relationship, common goals are much more important than a common origin. Where you are going to is much more important than where you are coming from."
It is evident from your quotation of Pslam 1 that you interprete "the ungodly" as those who do not subscribe to the tenets of your faith or at least to your perspective of Christainity, right?
If not, then define your concept of "the ungodly"first before I can give a fair comment to your view that the article flowed from "an ungodly"source and is therefore unhealthy for Christian consumption.
Additionally, I see your dualistic worldview when you use the word "worldly."
You see, this is one of the reasons we differ. Everyone here is operating from a standpoint of certain deeply cherished foundational biblical/denominational and theological convictions. Some people may not admit it, but it is true.
So if I may ask, what do you mean by "worldly"?
I will express more of my thoughts after you define the concepts you proposed in your response.
Him4Her said: "Let's say Christianity and biblical views are as varied as the myriads of denominations, theologies and dining-room bred "Bible experts" evident everywhere."
There is ONE Truth objectively speaking. It is revealed to us in the Word (Christ) and in the word (the Scriptures). You either agree with it or you do not. The only opinion that matters is God's.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Rom 3
WHAT advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God
3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Him4Her said: "However, I stand by my proposition that Oprah, the Rabbi and others who do not parade themselves as sanctimonious Christians have their place in God."
According to the Word, they are not believers and their place is not and will not be the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God
Gal. 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Him4Her said: "We can debate all we want, but none of my co-debators here really understand the mystery of divine grace as much as God himself does. Everyone can share a bit of their highly cherished fanatical & fundamental notions."
The "mystery" of divine grace is no longer a mystery. It is revealed in the word. The passages are numerous. We have been given all of the understanding that is necessary for our edification.
Him4Her said: "I do not apologize for my liberal, post-modern Christian stance. Hate me or love me, upon this Rock I stand!!! My God is a liberal God."
God is. He said: I AM THAT I AM (Exodus 3:14). He is not subject to reinvention based on time, dispensation, culture, or all things else.
Mal. 3: 6 For I am the LORD , I change not. (See also Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Isaiah 46:9-11; Ezekiel 24:14. James 1:17 )
In conclusion, it is obvious that you want to fashion a god of your own imagination. You will have eternity to reconcile your unbelief.
Is 45:
5 I am the LORD , and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD , and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Thank you for your detailed responses. Evidently you want to engage in intelligent no-holds-barred discussion.
1. I will start by stating that in your gallant effort to establish that Jesus died for some as opposed to unrefutable Biblical evidence that He died for all, you commited a principal error of biblical interpretation, namely:
pulling out scriptural verses from their contexts and jumbling them together to say what their different authors did not intend them to be used for or to say.
Those scriptures were not written to prove that Christ died for some.
I must conceed that I have made similar errors myself sometimes when I zealously needed to defend a position.
Just saying that the scriptures you mentioned do not accurately answer the question.
2. You address Oprah and Shmuley as "false" religious leaders". I disagree with you because there is no one authoritatively credentialled and mandated by God to decide who is false and who is true. Jesus Christ was called the Prince of Demons, yet he turned out to be our Lord and Savior. The Apostles were persecuted as "those who turn the world upside down"yet they were humans responding to a divine commission.
I figure you are convinced that God is a Christian, and therefore we have him on our side enough to condemn others who don't see Him as we do, right. Wrong! God is the God of all the earth. His power, influence and love spreads to wherever humans reside in this universe. He reveals himself to peopel in diverse ways and manners - most times not in "christian"ways. We cannot bridle God, even if we try.
3. Arrogance of Imputation: I hear you as you thunder and threaten from your delusive judgment throne. You warn me to beware lest you and everyone else brand me as a godless man. That's exactly the kind of spiritual arrogance that brought all of us thus far in this discussion. You think you are spiritually entitled to bully people into agreeing with your opinion about others. You are grossly mistaken. God's door is open to all his children - and whosoever wills will enter therein without adopting your divine lingo. Go ahead and brand me whatever you deem fit. I am a Christian Liberal and a post-modern biblicist. I have no qualms about what a conservative thinks of me or my views.
4. About "trash": The gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and the early Apostles was called trash in their days, hence they were persecuted and killed. So, what you and anyone else may call trash is relative. It may be poisonous to you, but refreshing to someone else. Why waste your time discussing a supposed trash if that's really what it means to you. If something is posted which you don't agree with, feel free to comment on it or not. It is obvious that no discussant here can change my views about Oprah or the Rabbi. So, why sweat about it?
I make no concessions where none is necessary!
5. Push back: A push back is a force supposedly applied to restraint, resist or oppose. There is no bad blood in me at all about your threatened "push back". I am here. I stand by my views and convictions. I will keep posting and responding to whoever comes up the stage. Whatever you want to bring on to push discussions to maximum, debatable heights, you will find me ready and willing!
You are long on verbatim, rhetoric, and ad-hominem and short on Biblical support. If you wish to engage me in dialogue, intelligent or otherwise, do so with the Word of God itself. Your opinions, if they disagree with the Word, are totally worthless to me.
You have done nothing to refute what I or any other member has said to you. Your claims thus far have had no Biblical support.
"It is evident from your quotation of Pslam 1 that you interprete "the ungodly" as those who do not subscribe to the tenets of your faith or at least to your perspective of Christainity, right?"
The Bible is what defines who are the Godly and who are the ungodly. That should be the only thing that is obvious. Read Romans 1, it will give you a rather detailed description.
Him4Her said: "Additionally, I see your dualistic worldview when you use the word "worldly."
The scriptures have been posted for you. They were not done by me because I chose to challenge you in another way. I chose to hold you to the same standard. You also failed to give one scripture that supported your claim so I could easily make the same statement you have and say "you couldn't find one". Why hold me to a different standard than you hold yourself to?
I might just have a bad memory but I'm not sure I used the analogy you are referring to. I'd say my opinion is about as valuable as yours, if that makes sense.
I've taken no scriptures out of context to make a point. I don't even recall posting scripture(Again, my memory could be bad here). You seem to be attacking arguments that I haven't made.
I didn't post a video that was "against" Oprah. I posted a video showing that she is against the God of scripture. Now if you can post one that's contradictory to that then I will be all ears. You are making an appeal to popularity...she has more good videos than bad so she must be a good person. That's just bad reasoning though.
1. You stated that TBK is guilty of taking verses out of context and using them in ways the authors didn't mean for them to be used. Yet, for all the writing you did, you neglected to give even one example of how this was so. Are we supposed to just take your word for it when your spiritual leaders are people who think Jesus is not the only way to salvation? Jesus Himself says He is the only way in scripture. Is that taken out of context as well. Be able to give a defense for the hope that is within you. TBK gave his defense. It's your turn.
2. You stated that no one is mandated by God to decide who are false teachers or who are true. Well, first that's absolutely false and I will show you why....and second then why in the world are you claiming that are true teachers? No one can claim people are false or true but you seems to be what you are really telling us.
Now about your claim that God doesn't tell anyone to decide who is false...
3 As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith. 5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions. 1 Timothy 1:3-7
17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. Romans 16:17-18
I could go on and on, but the point have been sufficiently made. Scripture is not on your side.
"Jesus Christ was called the Prince of Demons, yet he turned out to be our Lord and Savior. The Apostles were persecuted as "those who turn the world upside down"yet they were humans responding to a divine commission."
Honestly, I feel for you if you cannot see why this is a bad analogy. We have writing of apostles....we have words and teachings of Jesus that show us to avoid these types you promote. Jesus and the apostles were not seen as outcasts withing the chruch. They were outcasts to the unbelieving world. Oprah and the rabbi are outcasts to the church. They are entirely different things.
"He reveals himself to peopel in diverse ways and manners - most times not in "christian"ways. We cannot bridle God, even if we try."
Christian ways are what God has revealed they are through the scriptures. So the challenge I am giving you is to find me where God acts in the world in ways that are contradictory to what the scriptures teach.
3. "Arrogance of Imputation: I hear you as you thunder and threaten from your delusive judgment throne. You warn me to beware lest you and everyone else brand me as a godless man. That's exactly the kind of spiritual arrogance that brought all of us thus far in this discussion."
I will point you again back to Romans 16:17. Furthermore, we haven't blaming others for the length of the discussion is ridiculous. You started the thread with many errors in it. You then proceeded defending those errors to the death even though several faithful believers have pointed out the errors to you. If you were honest, you would admit that's why we are this far into the conversation and still going. This is a Christian site, not a liberal, post modern site. There are other sites available for the type of views you have. I find it ironic you calling others judgmental when you have done a great bit of judging in this thread.
4. You stated that Christ and the apostles were persecuted in their day. Well I've already pointed out how this is a failed analogy so I won't do that again.
" It is obvious that no discussant here can change my views about Oprah or the Rabbi. So, why sweat about it?"....and it shoul be obvious to you by now that believers aren't going to allow you to take their religion and make it into whatever you desire so I ask you why you are still trying. For some perspective....why don't you think about why it is that many nonbelievers love Oprah. While you are thinking on that, think about whether non believers loved Jesus and the apostles.
I think you probably came here thinking this place was like TBN an your views would be accepted here. When you realized they weren't, you went on the attack instead of questioning why believers don't see eye to eye with you.
5. "Whatever you want to bring on to push discussions to maximum, debatable heights, you will find me ready and willing!"
If you are set on doing this, why don't you start by backing up the claims you have made about scripture?
Good posts as usual Grace. Same thing, different day, eh brother?
This fellow has followed the usual pattern. Post up garbage that he is unable to defend using Scripture, revert to attacking those who challenge him on it, post a few out of context verses, ignore counterarguments that undermine his position and continue posting more garbage. Status quo.
Sadly, folks like this OP continuously mischaracterize their opponents arguments, twist the facts to suit their agenda, and just outright lie as needed to cover their tracks.
According to him, we have called him names, bullied him, threatened him and so on. This is the cookie cutter rhetoric of a liberal. Yet, the actual facts show that he is the one guilty of the offenses. It's tiring.
