I won the lottery and invested the money, I am now a billionare.
I drive my very expensive car to the shady side of town and pick up a street prostitute (total depravity).
She asks "Why did you pick me out of all these other girls?" I respond "No particular reason, just did" (unconditional election).
She asks "Can one of my girl friends come?" I reply, "No, I am only taking you" (limited atonement)
I share with her "I am not interested in what you have to sell, rather I am here to make you a offer you can't refuse". I explain "It will mean a change of life style for you, but I am offering to be your husband and make you my wife, all that I have will be yours". (irresistible grace).
She exuberantly accepts, but confesses "But what if I fall back into my old lifestyle." I reassure her "I will always be with you and have many servants to protect and watch over you" (perseverance of the saints).
I took Elijah House classes years ago, it was a Cross/Christ centered school to train people for prayer/comfort ministry.
We spent some time on the "orphan/ adoption mentality.
I used to have a lot of the orphan mentality, works and performance driven to get God to love me and be more glorified by my life. Orphans do not feel wanted, loved or needed and operate out of a needs driven mentality.
Nothing wrong with wanting Him glorified in everything we do, but when you know you have been adopted because of love? I respond back out of love and know he is to be glorified because he paid for me with His own life. :glow: Adopted kids that had a good relationship and understand why they were adopted, operate in that mentality and are very thankful and give honor to the adopter automatically.
My dad was adopted for the sole purpose to work on a celery farm and he was treated like a worker. He could not sit on the furniture on Sundays, never got hugged or told he was loved and wanted because of him and the want of relationship with him and got kicked out the first time he refused to go to catechism three times on Sunday.
He was bitter about Christianity until the year before he died, when he chose to let go on his past experiences and get to know his savior personally.
He became a new man, telling us kids that he loved us, which he never did. Glory to God!:applause:
I believe God wants us to love him first in our life, glorify him and find joy in doing such because he will never leave us. If we give that regard to other people, things, or ideas, they may all be gone by their will or just die on us and we will be broken.
God being glory hound really sound selfish...but he require it to protect us...yes! He does knew us better. Him at our core and the outer coatings may come and go, no big deal.
I don't think that God demanding the glory He deserves is the same as being a Glory Hound. He absolutely, utterly merits all praise, all worship, all glory. There's nothing selfish about claiming it. It is His.
Isaiah 6-7: "Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name, who I created for my glory."
1 Corinthians 10:31: "Whether you eat or drink, whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."
Be careful that you do not equate "glorify" with "beautify." We can do nothing to add to God's glory. "Glorify" is much more similar to "magnify," as in a telescope being used to make a very large but hard to see object appear much larger, or to look to us more like it really is.
Most people equate being loved with being made much of. We see time and time again though that God's love is much more him giving us what is best. Does a parent who makes their child eat vegetables he doesn't like not love him because they are making him unhappy, or are they loving him because they know he needs them?
God is the one being in the whole of creation that self-exaltation is a loving act. When we exalt ourselves, we distract ourselves and others from what we need most, namely, God. When God exalts himself, he calls attention to the one thing that we need most: himself.
As far as limiting God goes, you're again giving your own definition to a word. "Unconditional" means much more closely that God doesn't ask us to do something for him before he decides to work in our hearts. After all, we are dead in our sins. Not mostly dead. Dead dead.
I am totally on board with Glorifying God, and am not pouring a incorrect meaning into the word. And agree God's self-exaltation is in the best interest of everyone. This, (as so many things in the "spiritual") is a matter of focus. If one focuses on Glorifying God they will do it how they think best. However if one focuses on a intimate relationship with God they will Glorify God how God thinks best.
We are "somewhat" saying the same thing. It is like we have a car with a flat tire and you say "We need to lift the cars tire off the ground so we can change it" And I say "We need to get out the jack and put it under the axle and crank" Then you look at me and say "Umm, we need to lift the cars tire off the ground". And I reply, "please step aside while I get the jack out"
When Jesus summed up the Law and Prophets in two commands, they were both about relationship and neither mentioned "glory". Why?....because to put glorifying God before relationship is like putting the cart before the horse. Glorifying God flows from the proper relationship with God.
I agree that everything we do must glorify God. He is God and most worthy and always exalts Himself in everything He does, especially loving us. I really think we are all talking pretty much the same thing, here.
It is foreign to western Christianity to see His Glory in our suffering. Some say how can that be a loving God and why does He allow His children to suffer so? Look at Corrie Ten Boom. She glorified God in the midst of starvation, freezing cold, head lice, persecution and her own sister's death. Yet, she spoke of God's intense love for her and How he manifested His love to her.
There is nothing that glorifies God more than his children suffering and still trusting and glorifying Him. But yet, I'm sure Corrie and all the martyrs before us, questioned His love at times in their suffering.
What more could He have done to make much if us than to send His only begotten Son?
His discipline, His blessing, His everything is us being made much of. We are the object of His love and His love always does what is best for us, even if it means being single for years. :rolleyes:
We all have the sinful nature that is constantly fighting the spiritual side of us to be exalted, but when we humble ourselves, He exalts us.
Luke 14:11- For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
James 4:10-Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.
This thread seems to be going on a different track..maybe? so I will bow out...humbly. :glow:
I have the utmost respect for you, therefore allow me to be honest here, You say I am pouring different meanings into words, yet so far I have learned that in Calvinism, Total Depravity doesn't really mean that, it means more like Total Inability. Now I am learning "Unconditional" really doesn't mean unconditional but really means much more closely that God doesn't ask us to do something for him before he decides to work in our hearts.
This definition puts God back into linear time with words like "before". God is outside time therefore we do not know what conditions He uses, (if any). Which makes the the word "unconditional" inappropriate. Unless Calvinism is merely a hypothesis, then any word would be appropriate. The word 'unconditional' is not prohibited by Scripture, however it is neither supported by Scripture.
Two, I don't really know where to go from here. It clearly says in the bible that we were created for God's glory.
As for how we're using words, TULIP is just an acronym. It's like an episode of Wishbone dedicated to the writings of John Calvin. Sure there might be better words to use, but then it wouldn't make an easy to remember word.
Tulip, I agree 110%; Scripture says we were created for Gods Glory and it goes on to say in many places we are to share in His Glory. The real question then becomes "How" which Jesus answered with two commands of relationship; Love God and Love each other. This is to the Glory of God.
