When we read the Bible we must remember that we are reading words that sombody or a group felt means in English what the original text meant.
In another Topic, I was reading about wives submitting to their husbands.
I recommend that you get a copy of the Bible in The New American Standard translation. In this translation the goal was to put forth the literial translation of the text. If the footnotes are there; you get to see the literial word if the translaters used another in the passage.
The famous Ephesians 5:22-33 passage gets people wound up in knots. Many translations use the word "submitt" as in this example from the NIV:
EPH 5:22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
However, the word in the original is better translated as "be subject." This means, "to place or rank under."
Here's were it really gets interesting. If you have an NAS Bible like mine you will find that there are words in ITALICS. This means that the word that we are reading wasn't in the original text, but it is put there to help the reading go smoother by adding meaning. In Eph. 5:22, we would read: Wives to your own husbands, as to the Lord." The use of the words "be subject" comes from verse 21, which says, "and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ." This verse has a footnote that shows that "fear" can also mean reverence.
Let me end with:
EPH 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
"the word "submit" in the greek means to be under obedience."
THANK YOU... This isn't rocket science.
Last time I heard the wedding vows, BOTH husband and wife are asked "to honor and OBEY".....vis a vis....submit
It's about RESPECT and seeking good counsel from one another. To submit to each other means you put the other FIRST over anybody else or thing OUTSIDE the marriage.... i.e....friends....job....and kids.
The additional part in Ephesians for the man means that he actually has the greater responsibility in the marriage. It is this greater responsibility to "die" (as Christ died for the church) for his woman that is the very reason she is actually asked to give him the respect he deserves. She is not commanded to be subservient.... only to respect the greater role that he will play as the leader of the family and his willingness to be SELFLESS. By him willing to do such an act, he is, in fact, being OBEDIENT to the wife and the family.....
When a man loves his wife as Christ loves the church it does not mean that he transmuted and becomes Christ himself. A Godly woman must have her own personal relationship with the Lord. Only God can change a man. But a woman can let her requests be made known to God concerning her husband.
For too long woman have got away with blame shifting saying the husband is not a spiritual leader or whatever. Or He does not love enough like Christ.
At the end of Ephesians chapter four it tells us how to relate to each other. And It is for all believers as dear children, that they should love each other as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. This is not a male only message. Women can give and receive God's Agape' love.
And in marriage the wife does has authority over the man's body, 1 Cor 7:1-5.
The problem with submission/headship is that some men believe they are given authority over the wife as Christ has over the Church.
The bible says there is only one name given by which we may be saved. The husband is not a 2nd all male priesthood. women do not need a secondary savior no matter how much the man may think that he is one. And the husband will never be the perfect sacrifice that brings salvation.
The woman nags her husbands to be more like Christ and the husband says she does not submit enough. This is such a standard excuse for finger pointing it has become humorous.
But Remember God will not let you be tempted beyond your power to resist. But a foolish wife will. And that is also what a prostitute does.
dear folks, lets take a look at the verses to ephesians there..
ephesians 5:22-24 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
in these verses we see the wife is to submit to her husband,
as to the LORD.
and we see that the husband is head of the wife as CHRIST is head of the church..
and as the church is subject to CHRIST then the wife should be so to her own husband in everything..
submit and subject to as the husband is head of the wife.
so as a christian woman she is sposed to follow what is asked of her in the bible.. and it doesnt state to do so only if the man does what hes sposed to do.. but yet thats what the LORD expects of her as a wife...
i think we worry too much about what the other is sposed to be doin as a husband and a wife..
see i believe that we are sposed to do our part and fulfill our role as it is written.. and not go well ill follow the word as long as he or she does this or that..
but yet we need to just follow what the bible tells us to do and let GOD work it out with someone if theyre not following the word..
by our own obedience to the word ,then we have a clear concience cause we are doin what were sposed to be doin and if we worry about that more than what someone else is doin then we are doin our part as instructed.. and that way also it makes it much easier for the other spouse to do their part..
and if one of the spouses are not following their instructions then they will be the ones that the LORD will judge them for their actions.. they will be held accountable one day..
pray for them to follow their instructions and let the LORD do HIS good works in them.. to make those changes if they are not following..
if we forget to do our part as well as the other not doin theirs then the marriage will fall apart very quickly..
it may not break up right away but if youre both refusing to do what is written the marriage is already dying..
as long as one is willing to do their part then there is still hope..
so just do your part and follow the will of GOD and just allow GOD to handle the rest..
cause if a woman will let a man be the man hes sposed to be for her and if a man will love her and treat her as CHRIST loved the church then i dont know how anyone would ever wanna not be a part of that.. it can only bring you closer if you do your part..
and if a woman starts rebeling her husband and not showing him respect as the bible also instructs us then it will surely fail as well..
so i recon i been tryin to say if you want your marriage to work follow what the word says for you to do and be in a marriage and if you dont want it to work then stray from what it says for you to do..
A wife is never suppose to submit to her husband when he isn't loving her like Christ loves the Church.
If he's verbally abusing her, physically, emotionally cheating on her getting drunk then it's time to get out. The man is suppose to subit to the wife likewise. Jesus painted a perfect picture of this when he was humble and submitted to his disciples. Men think they don't have to submit when Jesus submitted. Something is very disturbed with that kind of thinking. Submission and being humble goes both ways we are called to serve each other regardless of how much you deny it.
God loves his children and he doesn't want his children to be abused by an abusive husband.
A man that doesn't respect his wife is a child of wrath. The bible is also clear that if the man is trying to get you to submit to his ways when his ways are against God's ways. Then you are to obey God not ur ungodly husband.
The responsibility isn't all on the woman. Men don't get a loophole to treat their wives like dirt and expect them to submit to them. Wrong answer. That is the main reason why there's such a high divorce rate. Women aren't staying in one sided marriages any more where the man isn't doing his part also. Both need to serve and submit to other. Until u understand this concept then best to never marry.
Regardless of what you say to support your wrong doing, I know better and that is never how God intended it.
Cattle...I was just sayin' that if the man is not a godly man with godly motives, then what if he decides to make a woman do something that is ungodly? Is the wife still required to follow this man into sin?
I have been on vacation so I missed most of this.I just got back.
Several things,at a previous church a lady I knew was saved and her husband was not.He said she was not to pay tithes.She talked to the pastor about this.He said," Do as your husband said.He is the head of the house and you are not pay tithes.As long as he does not try to make you stop going to church you are alright."
People it must mean something to keep those marriage vows.
For better or for worse
sickness or health
richer or poorer
If you get saved after you are married and your spouse says you can not pay tithes you must do this ladies.Even if you disagree. I know this may be a hard pill to take.
Talk is cheap, you have a duty to your spouse.Both ways, both sides.
We all submit to someone.
God is the father
The holy spirit plays the role of the mother,Comforter.
If it is worse that is not a reason to leave.When you get married it is, WHAT? To death do us part.
My ex left me when I lost my job.I was poorer or would get that way.
Jesus said he only grounds for leaving is adultery or if the unbeleaver choose to leave.He did not say any other reason.
David commited murder,none of his wives left him.
Commiting certain crimes does not excuse you to get a divorce.
I was always loyal and good to my wife.She even told me that when she left.She made it clear no job meant no money she was out.
I have in another post spoke about being a loyal man.All men treat the dates as if they are married.I respect the lady so I treat her very kind and godly.Why,because she is my sister in the lord.
The husband is like the father god.
The wife submits to him.
The children submit to both parents.
You can not just say if things go my way I will submit s one of you did.If the husband does not do gods will you still have to honor him and submit to him.If he is a drunk and does not beat you, you still have a duty to remain married to him.
remember the words for better or worse.
A good pastor friend of mine was saved as a young man then fell away.But his wife always took the kids to church.He went to the bars and came home drunk but never hurt his wife.Then he got saved again and rededicated his life to christ.His wife was a loyal woman even in the bad years.
Read those wedding vows people.It is a promise you make to god.
For better or worse.
The whole thing is a promise to god.Just because your spouse stops serving god does not give you the right to stop submitting to your spouse or leave them.Your promise to god is to death do us part.Other than the 2 examples I gave you you are to remain married.Dennis
dear hitman, no i dont believe a woman should committ sin herself if shes asked to committ sin or break the law by her husband.
or if he cheats on her.. the bible tells her she has a right to get out of the marriage then if she chooses....
and if she is bein abused then seperate right away.. get out of there fast.. or if hes abusing the children ,same thing, get out ,put him in jail.. and dont go back till youre really sure they wont do so again.. and i mean sure.. that habits hard to break.. not many succeed at it..
thats another good set of reasons we should make sure we are equally yoked before marriage.. if she chooses a man thats tryin to follow CHRIST you likely wont have them kinds of problems.. much more so than if she chooses a non believer..
but just cause say he didnt put the toothpaste top on she dont feel like he loves her as CHRIST loves the church anymore, hehe then she rebels against him.. thats the kinds of things im speaking of .. i mean if he aint askin her to do summin totally contrary to GODS word or breakin the laws of the land ,then follow him.. she should choose carefully and find a man she would be willing to follow and submit to.. and that would generally be one that is following GOD and is submitted to HIM first.. and the man should be lookin for a woman that is already following GOD and is submitted to HIM as well..
A wife is never suppose to submit to her husband when he isn't loving her like Christ loves the Church.
This is not true,where in the bible does it say this?verse and scripture please.
What about turning the other check?
what about love?
Those marriage vows?
So,we only have to submit if we want too.
Jesus never said anything like that.He said love the person but hate the sin.What do you do throw out the part of the word that does not benifit you?We all submit to either god or satan.
Stop riding the fence and go one way or the other.God does not have us choose just the good parts and reject the other person because they do something we dislike.:peace:
