I feel like I have to keep repeating myself because an individual on here isn't getting it. You know there's always one of those in class....heeeheeee.
These 3 women that I mentioned raised babies without their biological fathers. There is no proof in the bible stating that the biological fathers were there raising their babies. We all know what a biological parent is....correct?
Hope we can get past that now Jimmeny Crickets....Sakes alive....Geeeeee Whiz....:-)
No baby is a mistake, whether it's a slave baby, a Pastor or murderer all babies are created by the will of God. God wouldn't allow a baby to be born that's not his will. God's in control we're not especially when it comes to babies. I'm outraged that anyone on board a Christian website would call a slave baby of God a mistake. That baby Ishmael was anything but a mistake and he was God's will.
Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is.
18 Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.
20 So God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness and became an Archer.
First, Ishmael was a kid, a lad not a man. Even the Angel of God called the kid a lad not a man. So if you want to deny what the Angel of God called Ishmael then that's on you. Nowhere in these verses does it state that the kid was 13 if that was the case.....in the Angel of God's eyes this was a lad not a man regardless of his age cuz the bible says so. He was relying on his mother to care for him, (not the other way around if he was a man he would've been caring for his mother). Ishmael was a child dependent on his mother caring for him so he wouldn't die. God blessed Hagar by giving her water to save both their lives. If God condemned them he wouldve had them die in the desert which he didn't. He overly blessed them because in vs 18 he tells her he is going to make Ishmael a great nation and vs. 20 God was with the lad. What can be happier for a mom to hear than God is with ur child. Those are the words I crave to hear when I have my baby with this procedure.
Hagar was all alone in the desert being responsible for raising her baby and God had mercy on her and blessed both her and her baby.
We don't worship Mother Mary she was a great woman but a sinner like us all. Mother Mary and Joseph were the number one example of parenting in the bible we must follow since they were the parents of Jesus. Mother Mary never had to marry Joseph she could've raised the baby on her own, but she didn't. That says alot to me that tells me I should find a man that I love to help me raise my future baby just like Mother Mary did. There are beautiful families out there just like Mary and Joseph who stepped up to the plate and parented a child who wasn't their biological kid. It's not wrong to do this and they aren't sinning just like Mother Mary and Joseph weren't sinning. I'm constantly praying that God sends me my husband soon to help raise my baby by this procedure.
No baby is a mistake. Are you saying that Moses and Samuel are mistakes because they didn't have biological parents raising them. How absurd to the contrary these men became great men because God blessed them and didn't condemn them.
So what ur stating is noncompliant because there are numerous of babies who were raised either by no biological parents or one biological parent and God blessed them and didn't condemn them.
Tamar is another one who wasn't condemned by God. If God condemned Tamar he would've had her burnt at the order of Judah but he didn't. The reason is because it was God's will for her to have beautiful twins.
You are wrong to say that Tamar and the twins lived with Judah the bible never states this. That is ur interpretation. What exactly does it mean when it says Judah never knew her again? I believe that means that Judah never had sex with her again. You expect me to believe that Judah is going to care for her and the twins when she tricked him and he's not getting sex. Wrong answer.
If Judah would've accepted Tamar then he would've had sex with her again the bible states clearly he didn't. So believe there is more scripture proving he rejected her instead of accepted her.
What about Tamar stance in this? I believe that she took her babies and ran and raised her babies with others or by herself. Why on earth would a smart woman like Tamar who goes after what she wants stay with a man who lies to her, sleeps with what he thinks is a harlot(herself) and threatens to burn her. She's way savvy and smarter than that. Doesn't make any sense why she would stay with a man she lost all respect for. She just wanted the babies so she took her babies and ran. Also bible never states when she was in labor with the twins there was no mention of Judah being in the picture at all. Usually the bible will state when the men begat children so it's like she's on her own.
Ur theory of happily ever after doesn't hold true because the bible isn't a fairy tale. Face the facts there are many babies in the bible whether you like it or not weren't raised by biological parents and God said it's o.k. cuz he didn't condemn the babies or the parents who weren't biological.
There's also lovely barren Hannah who prayed for a son over and over and finally God answered her prayer. I feel I relate to Hannah the most. How awesome is God cuz not only did he give her Samuel he blessed her with a couple more kids after her. I believe God blessed her favorably because of her unyielding persistence to have a baby and not be barren. Hannah never gave up and pray I can be a 10th of the woman she is because I admire her so much. Hannah kept her word and gave Samuel to a church. So little Sammy was raised in a church with no biological parents and he turned out to be an amazing man who was very blessed by God. Hannah was blessed by giving her child up to be parented by parents who weren't biological. Hannah was blessed for doing this by giving her more kids. We never can understand the perfect will of God. We must accept help when it's offered to us and leave the rest in God's mighty hands.
The bible proved by all these stories and many more that he doesn't care who raises the baby whether it's a single parent, bilogical parent or someone who's not biological. He can bless any baby or parent in this situation as long as you are placing him first in both ur life and ur baby's life.
If you believe that everyone in the bible has both a biological parent and mother then ur reading a different bible than the Holy Bible. Even Jesus himself had a father who wasn't biological raise him. Be a man face the bible facts.
Trust in Jesus.
Gbu
Kimberly:-)
His own mother refers to him as a boy not a man in verse 16.
cattle, my issue was that you simply started a thread stating that she was wrong.
there was no argument made, there was no backing for it. no direct scripture, no reasoning, and no point.
you were simply starting a thread to say that you are right and she is wrong. being a person of "moderator status" that is abusive behavior. as i stated before, don't be a referree and a player. i understand you would still have to be involved and it takes some judgment on how much input you put in. But you have not demonstrated good judgment and you cannot stay objective about being a moderator.
You already made you point about disagreeing and thinking it was wrong and you are right. (that being the "dead horse"). You've already made your point and given your opinion.
Starting a different thread just to simply say that She is wrong again was just you being a bully. Where is that thread by the way cattle? Thumper may want to read what you started.
in answer to your question (which i seriously doubt is the only one question you have to ask) i made a post here because i am reading thumper's thread and listening to her reasoning and she has added some to her argument. I actually analyzed her argument and made mine. Thus, adding something of substance to the debate instead of just starting a different thread to just be judgmental and say someone is just wrong. had you added something of value to the discussion, i would have no beef.
you are still playing the same game cattle, when someone disagrees with, you try and tick people off and provoke them to say something innappropriate and then you report them and get them banned.
yes i did refer to you being a person who pretends to be a shepherd of the CDFF and you pretend to be the ole country sage that has all this wisdom that we should simply take without question and you should always have the final say on all issues.
i pointed out and i will still point out that you're puffed up with pride telling people when they are right and when they are wrong. you twist scripture to fit you own beliefs and when someone calls you out on it, you falsely accuse them of being offesive or mean or inappropriate and you demonize them. you have done it to me several times and you doing it now. you act as a wolf in shepherd's clothing.
when you can't when an argument, you simply accuse them of being mean or you start a thread stating that they are just plain wrong, and you act like the poor little victim.
immature at best, and as a moderator it is abusive of your status.
by the way thumper, the above is the extent of the "name calling" that i did to cattle in the post he is referring too.
hey Fury! as I see it this last rant didn't add much substance to the ladyt's thread either friend, and I sure don't think there's many here who would agree with the bull accusations your making toward cattle. If you've got a beef (lol) maybe it might be more appropriate to take it to him direct to work it out bro! yer opinions are good and well taken on this subject and others of yours I've read too, but this public bad mouthing needs to stop! It just ain't right and doesn't benefit anyone okay? :winksmile:
dear fury, i am just a concerned citizen here.. a concerned member here.. a partisipant on the forums here..
same as everybody else here..
i speak my beliefs ,you speak your beliefs ,and others speak their beliefs on different topics here.. and thats great..
we all have a right to speak our beliefs here..
and we all have the right to not be name called and insulted here personally. thats everyone here.. self included..
that right was given when the rules here were established by the administration here for here..
and should be followed by christians everywhere anyways.. that is just my belief..
you have been name callin me and insulting me and you have also made false accusations,slanderous even towards me here.. for just one minute fury forget about the rules here and think about what GODS rules says about that..
can you really say in your heart that youre doing what is right here?
a funny thing is if someone came in here and started name calling and insulting you here , id be the first to defend you as well.
Judah left his family and moved, married Bath-shua and had three sons. This is laid out in Gen. 38. He got his daughter-in-law, Tamar pregnant thinking she was a temple prostitute. She had twin sons, Perez and Zerah.
Now, as to Tamar being a single mom is not covered in Gen. 38. But, in Ruth 4:12 we read a blessing:
RU 4:11 Then the elders and all those at the gate said, "We are witnesses. May the LORD make the woman who is coming into your home like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you have standing in Ephrathah and be famous in Bethlehem. 12 Through the offspring the LORD gives you by this young woman, may your family be like that of Perez, whom Tamar bore to Judah."
Perez, son of Judah and Tamar was an ancestor of Boaz and later David.
In 1 Chronicles we read about Tamar again. Here we are seeing the listing of the genealogy from Adam on down to the Israelites. In chapter 2 we find the start of Israel's son's genealogy. Look at verses 3-8.
1CH 2:1 These were the sons of Israel:
Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, 2 Dan, Joseph, Benjamin, Naphtali, Gad and Asher.
1CH 2:3 The sons of Judah:
Er, Onan and Shelah. These three were born to him by a Canaanite woman, the daughter of Shua. Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death. 4 Tamar, Judah's daughter-in-law, bore him Perez and Zerah. Judah had five sons in all.
1CH 2:5 The sons of Perez:
Hezron and Hamul.
1CH 2:6 The sons of Zerah:
Zimri, Ethan, Heman, Calcol and Darda--five in all.
1CH 2:7 The son of Carmi:
Achar, who brought trouble on Israel by violating the ban on taking devoted things.
1CH 2:8 The son of Ethan:
Azariah.
It is clear that the sons of Tamar went to Egypt with the Israelites. This would have only happened it she was living with Judah and not living with her father.:rocknroll:
:peace: My little friend is helping me by being a "Y"
Why do you keep meeting us here and debating your having a baby; with or without getting married first. I am not interested in talking about yea or nay in regards to sin.
As I joking pointed out in a personal note to you; you live in the "SHOW ME" State of Missouri and you live in INDEPENDENCE.
My big question for the forum is: Are you trying to get everyone's approval? It doesn't look that that is happening. Are you trying to get the attention of a Christian man who will see these posts and want to marry you? As I have said before; back when I was around your age, I would have been interested. You are very atractive in your pictures and your written profile. So, have you asked yourself if maybe you are too picky?
I was in a Bible study group years ago and the leader was a great guy. I felt sorry for him because he had the marks on his face that look like burn marks. I wondered if he would ever find a woman to marry him. The was also a woman who was an RN in the group. She was beautiful. Guess what, they married each other. She saw beyond the outside.
You may have to locate and develop a man into your husband material. None of us are ever a perfect match.
i have made no bull accusations. as you have called. i don't think you know what cattle has said. Ask him about the thread he started. my accusation is sound. my two cents to the thread was given with reason. cattle's was not. read his thread and read my post. i think you will see the distiction. I actually gave reasons why
im sorry you have bought into his illusion that he is completely innocent. cattle has decided to be abusive on a public forum and provoke a fight. i have simply responded.
dg,
cattle has said he is a moderator. he is not a pastor by the scriptural sense nor has he earned any such right. to say that a pastor is beyond criticism is completely unscriptural. i have treated him with the utmost respect as a person however, he is not a spiritual leader. if someone else wants to call him a pastor, so be it. If he is ordained. Who cares. Ordinations aren't worth the paper they're written on. Elders are those who have earned the right by the congregation.
cattle,
you have bashed me over, and over again. you would be the last to defend me because you were the first to attack making false accusations and insults toward me. and i see you are again playing the victim. yes please cattle, i ask you to put the rules aside. going by God's rules you should step aside, practice humility and quit pretending to be fair and start actually being fair.
you felt "insulted" by me using country slang in some of my posts as if you are the only one who is allow to speak in country slang.(double standard) you have criticized some of my posts as being "not smart." But you didn't consider that insulting. you have falsely accused me of insulting you, yet you fail to understand that that is insulting to me. i have seen it not only with me but with others. you poke and prod and judge others and purposely provoke them and then you falsely accuse them of being insulting when you have judged them. Then you report them and get them banned.
i call you out on your arrogance and your false accusation and you just complain and say he's name callin and insultin me. (pardon me that was more cattlespeak wasn't it?)
Such a sickening double standard.
you make the claim that you are always polite and always speak the truth. i gladly challenge that. You PRETEND to be polite and you claim that your beliefs are the absolute truth.
please put your arrogance aside cattle, ask yourself is God pleased the public false accusations, the slandering, the twisting of his scripture and the judgemental, whiny, attitude you have consistantly displayed? do you think THAT is right? especially as someone who exalts himself as a leader and shepherd of the forums!!!???
by the way, your previous post said you only had one question for me. hmm... guess that wasnt exactly a true statement was it. :rolleyes:
I'm not here to judge anyone on the last post between Fury and Cattleman. That's a matter between them and God. I believe both of these men are good men and would love to see them get along. Us Christians need to stick together and place our differences aside. It really is o.k. to believe different.
This would be a miserably boring world if everyone believed the same. Cattleman, you and Fury are brothers in Christ and will be praying for both of you to forgive each other.
I have no hard feelings toward anyone on board here. I understand many of u believe different than me and it's o.k.. Just don't expect me to believe the way you do.
Gbu
Kimberly:-)
Tamar had sex outside of marriage and had twins outside of wedlock there's no disputing this. God didn't condemn her in fact he blessed her. Although I could never do what she did I don't judge her cuz it was all God's will for her to get pregnant. The point I'm making is God had mercy on her I believe cuz of her strong desire to have a baby. Still need to do research not
convinced that she lived with Judah after the twins either.
1. Judah was not with the family. He had moved elsewhere.
2. He was supposed to give Tamar to Shelah to raise up a child which was to represent his brother.
3. Judah put Tamar off saying that Shelah was not old enough to marry her.
4. Tamar was to live as a widow in her father's house until Shelah grew up.
5. Shelah grew up and Tamar was not given to him for a wife.
6. Judah was looking to sin and Tamar got pregnant.
7. Judah was with his father and brothers when they went to Egypt. The sons of Tamar went along too.
8. In the book of Ruth, Tamar is spoken highly of. So it looks like the boys weren't taken from her. Therefore, I believe that she lived with Judah. He says in verse 26 that Tamar was more righteous than himself. It adds that he didn't have relations with her again.
9. He realized that he had sinned and that sex with her had been wrong. He took her in and didn't have relations with her again.
10. In 1 Chron. 4:21 we find that Shelah has sons listed. Where they Tamar's? We don't know.
11. In Gen. 46 we read that Tamar's son Perez went to Egypt with two sons of his own.
I don't think that she was alone in raising the twins.:rocknroll:
